Taekwondo and Firearms

[Archtkd]

I generally don't like weapons training, but as I advance in Taekwondo I've found it necessary to familiarize myself with some weapons – knife, nunchakus, short staff and wooden sword. This has mainly been to expand my martial arts horizons and learn more self defense techniques. I like a Kenyan weapon called a rungu too because its still widely used in that country of my birth.

More recently, though, I’ve been thinking that if you are Taekwondo practitioner in the U.S who is seriously looking at weapons options, firearms training makes the most sense. Guns are the modern weapons, which have been in common use in the nation since its founding. The law allows mentally healthy and law abiding American citizens and legal residents to carry concealed handguns in Missouri, where I live and many other states.

Kindly; without letting this thread degenerate into a social, political and religious war of incoherence; can you please offer some opinions.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Any person who is studying any form of unarmed combat of any type, who is doing so for the express purpose of self defense, must also include familiarity with firearms in so far as the laws of their country allow.

There are no ifs, ands, buts or maybes. *MUST* is the final word.

 

[granfire]

What is it you want to know?

Study the use of firearms? Go for it. It's blast (no pun intended) but would I rely on it for SD purposes? Not really. I own a 9mm, that beast is pretty heavy and aiming it - though it shoots very smoothly - is challenging for me as untrained shooter. In a SD situation I'd be shooting awfully big holes into the air.

study defense against firearm? Go for it. There are certified instructors out there who can you advice on the proper way to go about it.

 

[StudentCarl]

I recommend looking into the training/writing of Gabe Suarez, as he integrates Airsoft into tactical training for realism. If you decide to integrate firearm defense training into your TKD, I suggest you use an Airsoft armed opponent. Getting shot when you screw up will teach you what's real about range and weapon retention. It will also teach you what's real about moving off center and about what it takes to beat a trigger finger.

If you are interested in training for concealed carry, a good organization is the US Concealed Carry Association (USCCA). You can find 'em via google.

Best wishes,
Carl

 

[Archtkd]

Thanks for the good opinions and advice folks.

Back in my undergraduate college days in Illinois in the early 1990s, I developed some basic proficiency with small bore (.22 cal) and air rifles, but my focus then was stricly amateur target shooting. My renewed curiosity in firearms now is driven by professional improvement and self defense goals. I think the knowlege is crucial for me as a more experienced Taekwondo practitioner and instructor, whether I decide to carry or not.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Think of it merely as just another extension of your martial arts training.

I have the book and the 3 DVD set from this site, and will be attending a class next month given by the author , and I have found them all to be indispensable and consider them a must for anyone seeking knowledge in this area:

www.armedresponsetraining.com

you also will be needing "In the Gravest Extreme" and "The Truth about Self Protection" both by Massad Ayoob and available at www.ayoob.com

 

[Earl Weiss]

Know yourself and know your oppopent and you will not be defeated in 10,000 battles. - Sun Tzu

You may wish to Check out Peyton Quinn's RMCAT for some serios gun trraining. He has lots of LEOs take his course.

 

[chungdokwan123]

In my view, handgun carry is a crucial component of self -defense......in this day and age......if it is done responsibly. What that primarily entails is to be trained, trained, and trained some more. Not merely trained in weapons proficiency.......but in the application of a handgun in self-defense. Those are two entirely different areas........and a lot of folks don't realize it. Proficiency in shooting does not translate into an automatic ability to deploy a firearm in a self-defense situation.

Furthermore, anyone who has not mastered the mindset of being aware of one's surroundings......considered paramount to preclude the need for self-defense tactics......need not apply.

Just my thoughts on a subject near and dear to my heart.....and my hip.

 

[Carol]

Firearms aren't for everyone, and they aren't a talisman that will magically save you from danger. However, defensive firearms tactics and marksmanship complement empty-hand martial arts extremely well. They offer a range component that unarmed fighting systems don't have, and also likely offer you the best chance of surviving an conflict with an unarmed attacker.

Firearms do not replace the need for an empty hand fighting system. Aside from the camaraderie, fitness benefits, etc., there are many scenarios when a person may need to protect themselves or defend themselves, but do not need to use deadly force. A scuffle with a perp outside of a pizza place may not warrant the use of weapon, for example. There are also escenarios where carrying a firearm is impractical (a trip to the ocean), or inadvisable/impossible/illegal (schools, airplains, in a courthouse).

I think many states require some sort of NRA-approved firearms safety class in order for a person to get concealed carry permit. The material that is taught in the class is valuable information to know, whether or not you decide to carry. Perhaps this would be a good place to start?

 

[zDom]

Think of it merely as just another extension of your martial arts training.

I have the book and the 3 DVD set from this site, and will be attending a class next month given by the author , and I have found them all to be indispensable and consider them a must for anyone seeking knowledge in this area:

www.armedresponsetraining.com

you also will be needing "In the Gravest Extreme" and "The Truth about Self Protection" both by Massad Ayoob and available at www.ayoob.com

Exactly the approach I took when I started training handgunnery.

(+1 on Ayoob: I've come to learn he is The Man to Listen To when it comes to firearms!)

One thing I've learned over the last year since I started training with handguns:

There are a WHOLE LOT MORE handguns out there than I ever dreamed. I used to be pretty confident that very few people who talked smack about "that karate don't work against a gun" actually had one on their person (which still may be true, to a great extent ...)

What I didn't think about was how many folks quietly are packing — and not just the gang bangers or off duty policemen. There are a LOT of people who regularly carry firearms.

Training to use a firearm gives you a MUCH better idea of what to look for, what it really means to defend against a firearm, IMO.

 

[Carol]

I think training in firearms can benefit your martial arts training as well. Learning how to calm yourself on demand is something one can apply to any art.

 

[UpTheIrons]

Actually, firearms training is one of the few civilian weapons training that actually makes sense in this era. Other than a historical perspective, none of the Oriental weapons (nunchucks, kama, sword etc.) make much sense in this day and age of modern weapons, which is why they have faded away.
Unarmed martial arts will always be useful, as well as small arms training. A familiarity with various other weapons (stick, knife etc.) is definitely useful as well. But as far as traditional Oriental weapons? Probably not, unless you're in a Japanese/Okinawan karate class and it's part of the curriculum.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Training in the use of firearms is fairly attainable for most. Training in the use of firearms within the context of the dojang is probably not the best idea, mainly because most facilities are not set up for it.

Training to defend against firearms is the most appropriate in the dojang setting, but the person teaching the course really needs to know what they are doing. Otherwise, it is just more fluff that instills a false sense of confidence in the student.

I do think that firearm training is appropriate, but I am not personally qualified to teach it, either the use of or the defense against. Unless the instructor is qualified to do both, then he or she should simply stick with what they are good at until such time as they have mastered the skills necessary to teach such a course.

Daniel

 

[UpTheIrons]

Unfortunately, many instructors do not stick with what they're good at. They try to pretend that they know every aspect of martial arts equally well, which is impossible.

 

[UpTheIrons]

One of the reasons our organization began having seminars and workshops years ago was allow various instructors with expertise in different areas of Taekwondo (forms practice, etiquette, self defense, first aid etc.) to share their knowledge with others in the organization.
The assumption is that no one instructor is an expert in every aspect of taekwondo. So one person who has worked in corrections would teach self defense based on scenarios he's familiar with-scenarios that go way beyond a finger to the chest.

 

[zDom]

Actually, firearms training is one of the few civilian weapons training that actually makes sense in this era. Other than a historical perspective, none of the Oriental weapons (nunchucks, kama, sword etc.) make much sense in this day and age of modern weapons, which is why they have faded away.

And ironically, a firearm is the only real weapon you can carry for self defense (with a CCW) — any of those others are likely to get you arrested

 

[UpTheIrons]

Nice thing about unarmed self defense or carrying a licensed firearm: you always have them with you. Anything else, since you most likely will not have them on your person should the need arise, do you little good in the event of a self defense situation. You can't very well go home or to your car to retrieve a weapon if you need to defend yourself.

 

[zDom]

Nice thing about unarmed self defense or carrying a licensed firearm: you always have them with you.

True for the former, not true for the latter.

In my state, for example, even with a CCW, I am not permitted to carry a firearm if under the influence or drunk, in buildings where it is posted they are prohibited, to my college classes, to any federal building (THAT one is the HUGE No No, according to my instructors for my CCW course), to a meeting of public officials, in establishments that make their primary income from selling alcohol that is consumed on the premises (i.e., taverns that sell more food than booze are OK; bars are NOT).

(These are all off the top of my head, so don't cite me on these.)

So you CAN'T "always have them with you" without running the risk of losing your CCW or even ending up with a felony and forfeiting your right to firearms ownership completely.