TaeKuekKwon & SoRimJangKwon Hyungs

[llosik]

I have added both Tae Kuek Kwon and So Rim Jang Kwon Hyungs to my books on Tang Soo Do Hyungs by Len Losik.

So Rim Jang Kwon Hyung was added to the "Tang Soo Do Book of Hyungs, Volume III", and Tae Kuek Kwon Hyung was added to "Tang Soo Do Complete Book of Hyungs". They will be available for sale at Amazon.com as soon as existing stock on hand is sold, this could be late fall, winter '03.

When browsing at Amazon.com, use my last name or Tang Soo Do to search for books.

 

[Zepp]

I'm curious. Do your books explore the origins of these hyung?

 

[llosik]

Hi Zepp,

The origins of these two hyungs will be exlpored in upcoming book(s) currently being written.

Many schools still use them today.

 

[Zepp]

Will your upcoming book also explore the origins of the TSD forms that were originally Okinawan? I'd be particularly interested in it if it did. :asian:

 

[llosik]

I have existing books I have published and are available at Amazon.com on Tang Soo Do that I give credit to both Okinawan and Japanese martial artists for the Korean Hyungs.

I also publish a table which has all the Tang Soo Do hyungs and the Okinawan and Japanese Kata names for the same ones. I have published this about 10 times in martial arts magazines and books. I call this the Hyung to Kata Translation Matrix. You should be able to find it in the description of my books on Amazon.com.

 

[TSDMDK16485]

what abouty the ship dan kuem hyung

 

[Mr. Daly]

Do you have copies of the SoRimJangKwon and TaeKuekKwon hyungs as done by GM Hwang Kee. I have been searching for these, but have not found them, except as Wu Shu and Tai Chi Chuan forms.

 

[rmclain]

Do you have copies of the SoRimJangKwon and TaeKuekKwon hyungs as done by GM Hwang Kee. I have been searching for these, but have not found them, except as Wu Shu and Tai Chi Chuan forms.

You won't find these except as a myth in MDK circles. I've yet to find anyone that can physically demonstrate the MDK Jang Kwon form.

I believe that Hwang Kee tried to learn Jang Kwon Hyung by watching Yoon Byung-in (YMCA Kwon Bup Bu) at demonstrations between 1946-49, then teach it to his students. Sort of like he did by reading Gichin Funakoshi's book on the Pinan forms then instructing them to MDK students. Grandmaster Kim Ki-whang (working in a senior position to Hwang Kee at the Transportation Administration (RR)) mentioned that Hwang Kee was always interested and following Yoon Byung-in around to demonstrations to watch. Probably, Hwang Kee just tried to memorize Jang Kwon by watching. He probably later gave up, but already taught his perception of the form to a few people. But, the copied version just "fizzled out" in the MDK and has evolved into some sort of legend.

R. McLain

 

[McZ]

Have you got a videos of this hyungs? or videos of Chil Sung 6-7 and Hwa Sun?

 

[Chizikunbo]

Have you got a videos of this hyungs? or videos of Chil Sung 6-7 and Hwa Sun?

McZ....the Tang Soo Do Mi Guk Kwan offers DVD's (www.tsdmgk.com) that detail most if not all the chil sungs and yukrhos...as well as hwa sun...
You may find these in the federation materials as well...www.soobahkdo.com...the TSD SBD Vol. 2 has Yuk Rho 1-3 as well as a version of Hwa Sun...the reason I say version is because it is supposedly different that the one demonstrated by KJN Hwang Kee, as KJN H.C. Hwang introduced a different version of the form to the senior members (chil dan and up) of the USSBDMDKF...
good luck in your search,
--josh

 

[Muwubu16858]

on the matter at hand, if you get the Soo Bahk Do Dae Gam written by Hwang Kee (the korean version, not the english volume one) it has So Rim Jang Kwon and Tae Kuk Kwon being performed. But understand that as for these forms, the descriptions are in chinese, and unless you understand the meanings behind the movements, there's really no point in trying them out at all. Also note that Tae Kuk Kwon (Tai Chi Chuan) is the only hyung out of the original 39 he lists in the Dae Gam and Volume One that he learned in China. As has been said many times, the other 38 were from Okinawan Karate styles that he picked up from books and colaborations with other kwan founders wh learned in Japan.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

But understand that as for these forms, the descriptions are in chinese, and unless you understand the meanings behind the movements, there's really no point in trying them out at all.

Reminds me of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, where Jade Fox could only learn so much from the Wudan manual because she could only "study the diagrams." Sorry if that sounds completely random.

 

[Chizikunbo]

on the matter at hand, if you get the Soo Bahk Do Dae Gam written by Hwang Kee (the korean version, not the english volume one) it has So Rim Jang Kwon and Tae Kuk Kwon being performed. But understand that as for these forms, the descriptions are in chinese, and unless you understand the meanings behind the movements, there's really no point in trying them out at all. Also note that Tae Kuk Kwon (Tai Chi Chuan) is the only hyung out of the original 39 he lists in the Dae Gam and Volume One that he learned in China. As has been said many times, the other 38 were from Okinawan Karate styles that he picked up from books and colaborations with other kwan founders wh learned in Japan.

Muwubu actually SRJK is discussed, but not really demonstrated except for a couple postures...
In all actuality the Chinese used in the text was quite odd, and descriptive. GM Charles Ferraro of the Tang Soo Do Mi Guk Kwan actually had it translated at the UN...here it is

This is the translation I was able to get from Chapter 30, Grandmaster Hwang Kee's Original Printing of Soo Bahk Do Dae Kamp. I am reposting this because I have read so many post about the long lost form...it is not lost it is in the original printing. It does need to be translated properly in a manner that can be understood and duplicate physically. I have even read that others are teaching this hyung. It would be an easy thing to compare those versions with the translation that follows here. If they match then they are doing the form KJN Hwang Kee learned if not well the conclusion is obvious...Here goes...enjoy

(1) This military exercise is a same overflow as "Naianghi" form. but it's movements starts more from the middle than "Naianghi" form and moves twoard left and upward.

(2) The ready stance is in triangle position and relaxed.

(3) Facing front, raise elbows in horizontal position.

(4) This form starts with the extension of the right hand.

(5) the left hand hits the right hand at the point and then the hands cross each other move hands toward the right center.

(6) Make one step to the right, face front, make a same position as #3

(7) The body and eyes face the same direction. Turn left and lift the right leg to left side take 1 step and face front of form...both hands will be raised

( Keep the left side same step to a horse stance with the left hands in fighting stance.

(9) The right foot will stay the same. The left foot will face left side. Turn toward the front. The body will face front.

(10) Facing left, the left foot will stay in place. Make right foot attack (type of kick not clear) and land in defensive stance.

(11) In the same stance, the left arm will extend toward the right side, the right fist will turn downward

(12) The right foot will steps to right side and bends at the knee (probably front stance). The front side of your body will face the front of form and your eyes will be looking to the left side. The left foot will be extended. The right hand will block upward. The left hand will block upward (probably reverse high block).

(13) The left foot will face left. The body and eyes will face towards the back of the form and repeat the motions in #8

(14) Same motions as #9.

(15) The left foot stays the same. The right foot comes together towards the left foot. Your head turns towards the back of the form and make a high punch.

(16) Lift left foot and raise body upward.

(17) The right foot will stay on floor and pivot and the left foot will face the right side with the head turned to the right. Same action as #7.

(18) Twist to a reverse front stance facing left side of form. Head turned to the right side and prepare for attack (defensive stance). Execute a left punch and backfist.

(19) The right foot will make a front kick to the front land in front stance

(20) Facing the right side the left foot will stay right side and the right foot will step once and make front kick.

(21) Same as #20 except reverse left and right.

(22) Same as #21 except reverse left and right.

(23) Turn toward left, the left foot will be make a fighting stance and execute a middle punch.

(24) The right fist will punch the left side

(25) Same as #24 except reverse left and right

(26) Same as #25 except reverse left and right. Open the left hand and push forward

(27) The left foot will lift to the right side. The right side will be centered and lift the left foot, and make a right hand high block and a simultaneous left arm low block.

(28) With both hands push forward. Then make a right hand low block. The head and body will face the left side of the form.

(29) The left foot will stay the same. the left hand will open and push forward

(30) The right foot will turn towards the back of the form and bend at the knee

(31) Step forward one step

(32) Kick with left foot. The right hand will be open and hold the left hand.

(33) The right foot will execute a front kick before the left foot touches the ground.

(34) Facing the back of the form, put the feet together. the arme will make a middle block (probably an inside to outside block).

(35) Turning hips to the left, the body will face the right side of the form. The left foot steps one step, both hands will be the same as #34.

(36) The right foot moves forward, the left hand will punch forward. the right hand will punch to the right side.

(37) The left foot will step forward

(38) the right foot will step forward, jump in the air and turn to the left side of the form. The face and body will continue to face the front. Stay in the horse stance. The left hand will face downward.

(39) The right foot stays the same. The left foot moves to the right bringing both feet together. The left hand makes a middle block and the right hand extends forward.

(40) Same as #7

(41) Same as #8

(42) Turn left, attack the middle...same as #20

(43) Same as #42, except reverse the left and right

(44) Same as #42, the opposite of #43

(45) Turn left, the head and body will face the right side of the form. The right foot will stay on the ground. The left foot will lift and the execute a right high block.

(46) At the time the left foot touches the ground. The body will be facing the rear of the form. The upper body will turn towards the back of the form and both hands will stretch forward.

(47) Same as #46, the right foot will step forward. the left foot will be facing the right side of the form. Execute a right punch.

(48) Before the left foot lands, the right foot will make a front kick

(49) Both feet land together, twist hips to the rear, head and body will front of the form. Make a left middle block and a simultaneous right punch. Repeat #s 46, 47, 48, and 49.

(50) Right foot moves forward, the body and head will face the left side of the form

(51) Step with the right foot, the body and head will face the rear of the form

(52) Raise the right foot and make a high block with the right hand while making a left hand low block

(53) Both hands will come together, keep the right foot raised and reverse the hands

(54) Bend the right knee and stomp with the left foot and repeat the moves from #s 52, 53, 54

(55) The right foot stays the same. The left foot will step forward one step to the right side of the form. The head and body will turn to the right side of the form.

(56) The left foot will make a front kick and the right hand will be chambered and ready for an attack.

(57) The same motion as #55 and #56 except reverse the left and the right

(58) The same motion as #57 except reverse the left and the right

(59) The left foot will face front, make a right low block to the front of the form

(60) Same as #11, except the body and head will be in different direction'

(61) Same motion as #12 except the direction

(62) Facing the front of the form, the body turns to the left side, the right foot will come together with the left foot.

(63) Bend the knees and extend both arms, the right fist will punch upward.

(64) Jump and turn to the left. The body and head turn to the rear of the form. Land in a horse stance

(65) The left hand makes a block to the front and the right fist makes a low block

(66) The left foot will come to the right foot, the body and head will be facing the rear of the form. the left fist makes a low block and the right fist will execute a punch.

(67) The left foot will face the right side and you will take one step. the left foot will be in a fighting stance. The body and head will face the right side of the form.

(68) Facing East, the right foot will move one step. Make a left then right punch.

(69) Same motion as #41.

(70) Same motion as #66 except the direction and the body and head will face the front

(71) Same motion as #70 except the left foot will raise to the right knee.

(72) Same motion as #7

(73) Same motion as #7

(74) Same motion as #9

(75) Same motion as #20

(76) Same motion as #21 Reverse of #75

(77) Same motion as #76, Reverse the direction

(78) Same motion as #77, Reverse the direction

(79) Same motion as #78, Reverse the direction

(80) The face and head will face the rear, same motion as #55.

(81) Turning towards the right side, same motion as #56

(82) As the left foot touches the ground land in a fighting stance with your head facing the left side of the form. Make a left punch and chamber the right fist.

(83) Same motion as #82. Except the reverse the left and the right.

(84) Same motion as #3

(85) Same motion as #2

---THE END---

The Tae Keuk Kwon has more pictures as well as applications...I have them and it is interesting, but not shattering.

take care,
--josh

 

[rmclain]

on the matter at hand, if you get the Soo Bahk Do Dae Gam written by Hwang Kee (the korean version, not the english volume one) it has So Rim Jang Kwon and Tae Kuk Kwon being performed. But understand that as for these forms, the descriptions are in chinese, and unless you understand the meanings behind the movements, there's really no point in trying them out at all. Also note that Tae Kuk Kwon (Tai Chi Chuan) is the only hyung out of the original 39 he lists in the Dae Gam and Volume One that he learned in China. As has been said many times, the other 38 were from Okinawan Karate styles that he picked up from books and colaborations with other kwan founders wh learned in Japan.

I think I have the pages from Hwang Kee's book describing So Rim Jang Kwon. I don't know if this is the same book as you referenced. But, it is supposed to be from Hwang Kee's book written in Korean. I was told by a native Korean that the writing is "jibberish" and doesn't really make sense. My Korean is not good enough to verify this. But, I trust the opinion of the reader.

I'm not sure what the form is referencing with the word "Naianghi." But, it could be a reference to the Okinawan form, "Naihanchi" which is also known as "Tekki," "Chulki," "Kima," and "Naebojin."

R. McLain


R. McLain

 

[Muwubu16858]

what book do you have of hwang kee's? the soo bahk do dae gam is his master text and the copy i have is from 1970. if you can show a pic of the cover, i can tell you the book

 

[Muwubu16858]

on another note, hangul itself can be jibberish to readers, since the spoken language uses a lot of the same sounds for many words, and hangul is phonetic. to understand better, one would need to read and understand hanja. but your friend is right that what it says is jibberish....you wouldhave had to learn the hyung from someone who learned it from GM Hwang, or whomever else knew that form at that time.
I have seen them done before, and their is a lot of actions that aren't picture but are described, and just like reading one's personal notebook in korean, who really knows what is meant except by the writer himself.

 

[MBuzzy]

I think I have the pages from Hwang Kee's book describing So Rim Jang Kwon. I don't know if this is the same book as you referenced. But, it is supposed to be from Hwang Kee's book written in Korean. I was told by a native Korean that the writing is "jibberish" and doesn't really make sense. My Korean is not good enough to verify this. But, I trust the opinion of the reader.

on another note, hangul itself can be jibberish to readers, since the spoken language uses a lot of the same sounds for many words, and hangul is phonetic. to understand better, one would need to read and understand hanja. but your friend is right that what it says is jibberish....you wouldhave had to learn the hyung from someone who learned it from GM Hwang, or whomever else knew that form at that time.
I have seen them done before, and their is a lot of actions that aren't picture but are described, and just like reading one's personal notebook in korean, who really knows what is meant except by the writer himself.

Muwubu,

I believe that the Jibberish being referred to is the Hangul on the front of Mr. Losik's book. I have read most of Hwang Kee's books in Hangul and I can assure it....It is Korean (some hanja, but mostly Hangul).

On the other hand, the front of Mr. Losik's book is complete jibberish. He made an ATTEMPT to write the words Tang Soo Do in Hangul and failed miserably.

I just returned to the US from a year in Korea and read Hangul very well. I'm not the best translator without a Korean helper, but I can at least pronounce all the words.

 

[rmclain]

Muwubu,

I believe that the Jibberish being referred to is the Hangul on the front of Mr. Losik's book. I have read most of Hwang Kee's books in Hangul and I can assure it....It is Korean (some hanja, but mostly Hangul).

On the other hand, the front of Mr. Losik's book is complete jibberish. He made an ATTEMPT to write the words Tang Soo Do in Hangul and failed miserably.

I just returned to the US from a year in Korea and read Hangul very well. I'm not the best translator without a Korean helper, but I can at least pronounce all the words.

I placed a .jpg of the Jang Kwon text I have as my avatar. I don't know if you can grab that picture and read it. If not, private e-mail me and I'll send the file to you.

R. McLain

 

[Chizikunbo]

Some Tae Keuk Kwon Pages

 

[Chizikunbo]