I'm going to reply to a few segments of this post between Ras and Chris. My replies will have a * at the beginning and end, to make it easier..I think, as to who's saying what.
Right. Ras, try to listen here.
Ras, to be completely blunt, this is the core of your problems, and the absolute evidence that you are not in any way right. In the slightest. Let's demonstrate, as you seem rather ignorant of what, or even how a technique teaches it's lessons.
The lessons of EPAK Sword and Hammer are numerous, but some that are immediately apparent are as follows:
- When grabbed, capture the grabbing hand for psychological and physical control.
Grabbing the BG's hand doesn't give you psychological or physical control. He grabbed you in order to control you by locking you down into place for, pushing you away from, or pulling you in to the incoming blows that he's raining on you. Using your far hand to pin BG's hand to your shoulder simply means that you're unwise enough to remove your unencumbered limb from combat, thus opening up other lanes for the BG to attack and hurt you [ or his friends to do the same ] and removing your limb from the possibility of offensive strikes.
*I disagree Ras. It does give a psychological/physical control. The common response from the defender would be to try to pull away, not marry the badguys hands to your body. Its just like a weapon...the badguy is using that weapon for intimidation and control. Not saying that he wouldn't use it, but he's expecting compliance, not grabbing the weapon.*
MJS THE ONLY WAY THAT COULD BE TRUE IS IF THE BG ISN'T THROWING A PUNCH AT YOU WHEN HE GRABS YOU. IF YOU PIN HIS HAND ON YOUR SHOULDER WITH YOUR OFF HAND, HE'LL JUST HIT YOU ANYWAY. IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU ANY SORT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL OR PHYSICAL CONTROL. HE WON'T BE TRYING TO PULL AWAY HE'S ALREADY COMMITTED TO PUNCHING YOU. WHY WOULD HE PULL AWAY WHEN HE HAS HIS HAND ON YOUR SHOULDER AND HIS FIST COCKED AND IS IN THE MIDST OF FIRING A PUNCH OR--AS IN MY SCENARIO--HE'S ALREADY PUNCHED YOU AND YOU'RE RESPONDING TO HIS AGGRESSION BELATEDLY? HE'LL JUST KEEP HITTING YOU,MAN. I'M ACTUALLY SURPRISED THAT A GUY AS SHARP AS YOU ARE MISSED THAT. MAYBE YOU'RE ENVISIONING A SITUATION WHERE HE'S JUST GRABBED YOUR SHOULDER BUT HASN'T LOADED A PUNCH TO FIRE YET..?
* But this is assuming that the punch will always be his next course of action. Thats like saying that every time a weapon is pulled, it'll be used. As I said, with a weapon, alot of the time its intimidation. Not saying they wont use it, just like i"m not saying they won't punch. In this case, you're assuming the punch will always happen. I disagree. That said, when someone is grabbed, their natural reaction is to pull away, not marry the guys hands, and move in, counter strike, etc.
PERHAPS I'M NOT MAKING MYSELF AS CLEAR AS I'D LIKE TO DUE TO POOR WORD SELECTION. I APOLOGIZE THEN. I DON'T ASSUME THAT THE PUNCH WILL ALWAYS COME. I ASSUME THAT THERE IS A REASONABLE THREAT OF OR REALITY OF AGGRESSION UPON OURSELVES AND WHATEVER THE SCENARIO WE NEED TO PUT OURSELVES IN CONTROL OF IT WHILE ELIMINATING SAME FOR THE BAD GUY. THAT INCLUDES PSYCHOLOGICAL INTIMIDATION...AND THAT'S ALL THE MORE REASON TO NOT BURN INTO OUR REFLEXES THE AUTOMATIC RESPONSE OF HANDSWORD TO NECK-HAMMERFIST THE NADS. YOU'RE RIGHT...NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE SPEND TIME IN WHAT YOU CALL THE "BEFORE" AND "AFTER" PHASES, FOCUSING MOSTLY ON THE "DURING". WELL, I BUILD INTO MY "DURING" THE CAPACITY TO FURTHER PROPERLY ANALYZE WHAT'S GOING ON WITHOUT SACRFICING AN OUNCE OF COMBAT EFFICACY.
WHAT I MEAN, MY FRIEND, IS THAT WHATEVER THE OFFENSIVE IS? OUR FIRST REACTIONS SHOULD NUETER IT. THE COVER AND SPIN FREES YOU OF THE GRAB, TAKES YOU OUT OF DIRECT LINE OF ATTACK FOR ANY HAND HELD WEAPON WHEN YOU SPIN OUTSIDE AND ALLOWS YOU TO ENGAGE AND DEFEND AGAINST SAID WEAPON IMMEDIATELY WHEN YOU SPIN INSIDE, AND ON THE GROUND YOU'RE ABLE TO NUETER FURTHER OFFENSIVES AND DROP YOUR OPPONENT WHILE PUTTING YOURSELF IN A SOLID LARGELY SAFE POSITION TO COUNTERATTACK. ALL OF THIS WITH A SINGLE MOVE. AND THAT SINGLE MOVE WAS CHOSEN BECAUSE WE ARE AWARE OF THE FACTORS THAT CAN HAPPEN IN CQC AND I TOOK THE TIME TO CONSIDER HIGH PERCENTAGE DEFENSES WHICH ARE THEMSELVES ATTACKS YET ARE SO SIMPLE EVEN UNCOORDINATED COMPLETE NOOBS CAN LEARN IT QUICKLY AND EFFICIENTLY. THEN I GOT ON THE MAT MYSELF AND WORKED IT OUT PHYSICALLY UNTIL I GOT THE INGREDIENTS RIGHT, AND CAME UP WITH THE RESULT THAT I WANTED...AND I KEPT THE WHOLE PROCESS TOP TO BOTTOM. WRITTEN NOTES AND EVERYTHING.
I FAIL TO SEE SUCH CONSIDERATIONS BUILT INTO THE EXECUTION OF THE MORE COMMON VERSION OF SWORD AND HAMMER. I'M NOT SAYING THAT TEACHERS LIKE YOU AND SAY ROB DON'T HAVE THOSE CONSIDERATIONS BUILT INTO YOUR CLASS LESSONS ON THIS AND OTHER SEQUENCES, WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT I DON'T SEE THESE CONCERNS BUILT INTO THE SEQUENCE ITSELF. YOU SEE ME? MY FIRST RESPONSE REFLECTS MY AWARENESS OF THIS SITUATION. IN EVERY SINGLE SEQUENCE I HAVE, THIS CONSIDERATION IS BUILT INTO IT. SOMETIMES IT'S MORE SUBTLE THAN OTHERS, BUT IN THE ACTUAL SEQUENCE OF MOVEMENTS THAT I TEACH-- ALL OF THEM--I HAVE THIS CONSIDERATION IN MIND
- When being pulled, go with the energy of that pull.
Most of the more common Sword and Hammer sequences that I've seen live as well as those on YT do NOT feature an actual pull by uke. Most have him posing and doing nothing. But even if they did feature the pull? They neglect to address the very high probability that the BG's punch is hard on the heels of the pull, so they'll be pulled into the oncoming punch in far too many cases. The "more common" Sword and Hammer version that you claim is superior to mine doesn't remotely address this reality.
*Ras, you keep harping on this, and frankly its kinda old. Of course you don't see this in those techs. Why? Because once again, its a platform to build from. Your method is taking the student from step 1 to 10, without hitting 2 thru 9. You make it seem like you're the only one to address a punch. You're not. I do it, just not as rapidly as you're doing it.*
THE FACT THAT I INTRO THE PUNCH IMMEDIATELY DOESN'T MEAN THAT I'M GOING FROM 1 DIRECTLY TO 10, WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT I'M PRESENTING A COMPLETE SCENARIO FROM DAY ONE TO BE TRAINED AGAINST. WE BREAK DOWN OUR RESPONSES AGAINST THE GRAB AND PUNCH WITH THE COVER AND SPIN FIRST. WE DON'T EVEN PROGRESS TO THE NEXT MOVES UNTIL YOU'RE HIT FIRST, RECOVER, AND THEN SPIN. THAT IS THE MOST ESSENTIAL ASPECT OF THE SEQUENCE. WE COVER BEING PULLED INTO THE PUNCH AND JUST GOING WITH OUR SWORD AND HAMMER THERE AS WELL AS SPINNING AWAY AFTER WE'RE CRACKED FROM THE REAR AND BEING PUSHED AWAY BY BODY PRESSURE AND PUNCHES. WE FOLLOW A VERY SPECIFIC PROGRESSION AND WE COVER ALL OF THE PRIMARY STEPS IN BETWEEN...BUT WE PRESENT A COMPLETE RESPONSE. WE JUST DO SO, AS YOU STATED, EARLIER THAN YOU DO. THAT'S A MATTER OF TRAINING PREFERENCE AND TRAINING PARADIGM, NOT A LACK IN TRAINING QUALITY. I'M SURE YOU TEACH YOUR MORE SLOWLY PACED METHOD WELL, AND I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT I TEACH MINE VERY WELL INDEED. AS LONG AS THE RESULT IS A FULLY FUNCTIONAL STUDENT? I DON'T SEE TOO MUCH TO QUIBBLE ABOUT.
*Umm...if we look at the early techniques, and katas, we'll see they're teaching specific things. This is mentioned in the 5 vol Parker books. Seems like to me, it'd make more sense to ease the student into dealing with 1 attack first, before trying to get them to deal with a grab and a punch. So yes, your way it taking them from 1-10. I cover the same thing you are, but I get them to deal with one thing first. As I said above, we're assuming that the punch will follow. What if it doesnt? I've seen people grabbed and moved around, slammed into a wall, etc.
KATAS ARE COMPRISED OF MULTIPLE MOVEMENTS AND OFTENTIMES DEMANDING, EXACTING STANCES. IN SHORT ONE...HOW OFTEN DO WE HAVE TO STOP AND REALIGN FOOT AND HEEL POSITIONING OF STUDENTS AS THEY'RE PERFORMING THE KATA? HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO FUSS ABOUT FLAPPING ELBOWS AND IMPROPERLY COUCHED FISTS BY THE HIPS? HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TELL THEM TO RELAX AND TRUST THEIR BODIES, DON'T BE SO ROBOTIC AND OVERTHING EACH MOVE? HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO REMIND THEM WHICH WAY TO TURN, WHICH FOOT TO STEP BACK WITH, TO TURN THEIR HEADS TO LOOK AT THE DIRECTION THEY'RE GOING AND VISUALLY CUE UP THEIR IMAGINARY FOE BEFORE THEY EXECUTE THEIR BLOCKS? HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TELL THEM TO BLOCK WITH AUTHORITY...DON'T JUST PUT YOUR HAND ARM IN THE AIR? I KNOW YOU FEEL ME.
EVEN SHORT ONE IS COMPRISED OF DIFFERENT BLOCKS TO THE CARDINAL DIRECTIONS AND COMBINED WITH A SENSE OF SPATIAL AWARENESS WHICH SHOULD RETURN YOU VERY NEAR TO THE SPOT THAT YOU STARTED YOUR KATA AT WHEN YOU'RE DONE. YES THEY TEACH SPECIFIC THINGS. MY SEQUENCE HAS MOVEMENTS ABOUT EQUIVALENT IN NUMBER TO SHORT 1. IT TEACHES A SPECIFIC THING. IT RETURNS YOU TO THE SPOT YOU STARTED AT [ STANDING ]. MY SEQUENCES ARE NO MORE GOING FROM 1-10 THAN LEARNING SHORT ONE TAKES SOMEONE FROM 1-10.
PLEASE LOOK AT MY 15 ROUND PROGRESSIONS WHEREIN WE GET IN LOTSA HIGH QUALITY REPS AND COMBINE THEM WITH THE VIDEO REGARDING THE INSIDE BLOCK THAT I SHOWED. I CAN LITERALLY FIND A KID AND HAVE A KID LIKE 10 YEARS OLD OR WHATEVER DO WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IN UNDER 3 MINUTES' TIME. NOT KIDDING, NO JOKE. I WILL FILM IT. WHENEVER I DO MY VIDEOS AT THE PARK? KIDS COME UP AND ASK ME ABOUT WHAT I'M DOING. I'LL CORRAL ONE OF THOSE KIDS AND PROVE TO YOU WHAT I MEAN BY MY PROGRESSIONS, MY FRIEND MJS. IT'S REALLY REALLY NOT HARD OR OVERLOADING. IT'S MERELY A DIFFERENCE IN TRAINING PARADIGM AND MAYBE DEMOGRAPHICS TOO. MAYBE THE PEOPLE I TEACH ARE MORE ATHLETIC AND MORE FAMILIAR WITH COMBAT THAN THE PEOPLE YOU TEACH. IDK. REGARDLESS? NEXT WEEK I WILL PUT UP VIDEO SHOWING YOU HOW EASILY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT CAN BE DONE.
- The use of pre-emptive striking as a tactic.
As I have previously stated and left links proving to be true...Kenpo Elders like Larry Tatum and Doc Chapel find the "pre-emptive strike" notion to be questionable at best. On the mat? Their skepticism is thoroughly underscored by actually sparring with Sword and Hammer vs the Hockey Punch.
* And thats their opinion. The use of a pre-emptive strike is very useful. Theres nothing 'questionable' about it at all. Numerous RBSD guys use it and speak of its effectiveness. The #1 reason people 'question' its use, is because to the average Joe passerby, it'll look like WE are making the first move. What the untrained person IS NOT seeing, is the agressive, threatening actions, by the badguy. THAT right there, is assault. Sorry, but anyone who would wait for the punch to be half way to their face before reacting, well, they're an idiot. As I've said a million times, and I'll say it a million more....my safety, and that of anyone with me is my #1 concern! I'll deal with the other BS later. *
MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE SPECIFIC AND CLEAR: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE IDEA AND CONCEPT OF THE PREEMPTIVE STRIKE. THERE IS A GREAT DEAL OF DIFFICULTY IN PULLING THIS CONCEPT OFF USING THIS SEQUENCE WHILE UNDER DURESS AND STILL HAVE A VERY HIGH LEVEL OF PROTECTION AGAINST LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS FOR GUESSING WRONG. WITHOUT SOME KIND OF ASSESSMENT MECHANISM BEING BUILT INTO THE SEQUENCE ITSELF AND REENFORCED VIA TRAINING, MUSCLE MEMORY COULD TAKE OVER AND YOU MIGHT BLAST SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T DESERVE THE SWORD AND HAMMER INTO OBLIVION. OR YOU MIGHT GO OVERKILL WITH THE FORCE ON SOMEBODY WHO DOES INDEED DESERVE THE SWORD AND HAMMER. AND THERE ARE ALOT MORE ISSUES THAT I SEE WITH THE WHOLE PREEMPTIVE STRIKE NOTION--NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH IS THAT IT'S THE LEAST LIKELY TO HAPPEN UNDER DURESS IN THIS KIND OF HOCKEY PUNCH SCENARIO AND MOST DIFFICULT IN MOST CASES TO LEGALLY AND MORALLY JUSTIFY--BUT IF YOU END UP WITH A FULLY FUNCTIONAL STUDENT USING YOUR METHOD? HAVE AT IT THEN.
*Can't be that hard, because there're people who preach the use of the pre empt and teach it, all the time. Saying its hard to pre-empt, because of duress, but pulling off a SD tech isn't, doesnt make sense. As for the legal stuff...this is why I've said many times, that the majority of schools teach only what I call the "During" phase, yet they leave out the "Before and After" phases, those being how to verbally defuse something and how to deal with the aftermath. Like I said, I'll deal with the legal stuff after.
Of course, I'm not necessarily talking about a preset SD tech. I'm talking about something as simple as a pre-emptive palm to the face, a kick to the shin, etc. I doubt those things, which are minor IMO, are going to land me in a heap. Even in the DOC, we had a use of force protocol to follow. Things like that are less frowned upon vs. if I knocked out a few teeth, took an eye, etc.
PREEMPTIVE STRIKES AREN'T THAT HARD...WE AGREE...DEPENDENT UPON WHEN THE PREEMPTIVE STRIKE IS TO TAKE PLACE AND WHAT YOU CONSIDER TO BE PREEMPTIVE. FOR INSTANCE, I HAVE A UNDERHOOK AND THROAT STRIKE IN MY CAPTURED STORM VARIANT WHICH PREEMPTIVELY STOPS ANY ATTACK FROM THE FAR ARM BY CANCELING IT OUT AND MANIPULATING H.W.D.
ROB'S WIFE [ GIVE HER PROPS FOR ME PLEASE, ROB ] AND CYRIACUS ARE RIGHT. WE'RE USING SIMILAR AND SOMETIMES DIFFERENT NOMENCLATURE FOR IDEAS WHICH ARE SOMETIMES RADICALLY INCONGRUENT TO EACH OTHER. SO LET US RETURN TO THE BEGINNING TO SEE WHERE OUR DIFFERENCES START AND PERPETUATE OUTWARDS IN ORDER TO FACILITATE BETTER UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN US ALL.
AS I HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIMES BEFORE, THE MORE COMMON SWORD AND HAMMER EXPRESSION ISN'T A SEQUENCE FOR ME OR MY STUDENTS...IT'S SOMETHING WE COVER IN PRE-WHITE LEVEL "A" ISOLATED SPARRING. OUR NEWEST NOOBS LEARN THIS TECH EARLY ON. THESE LESSONS ARE QUICKLY SOAKED INTO OUR NEWBS, ESPECIALLY IN OUR "CARDINAL DIRECTIONS" AND 'BULL IN THE RING" SPARRING DRILLS. THERE IS NOTHING WHATSOEVER EXCEPTIONAL OR SPECIAL TO US ABOUT THIS COMBO OTHER THAN WHAT WE FIND IN STRAIGHTFORWARD SPARRING.
WE DO NOT LET NOOBS CHOP EACH OTHER IN THE THROAT W/O PROTECTION, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GONNA SCREAM. LOL. WE GEAR EM UP AND ALLOW MODERATE CHOPS TO THE TOP OF THE CHEST AND NEAR THE TRACHEA. THEN WE SLAP ON FOOTBALL NECK FOAM PROTECTION AND WE GO TO THE THROAT FOR REAL. THE RESULTS ARE INSTANT AND EDUCATIONAL. WITHOUT PROTECTION OR WITH LESS PROTECTION, PEOPLE JERK BACK AND AWAY FROM THE NECK STRIKE ALOT INSTINCTIVELY. HOWEVER THE GROIN ISN'T PRESENTED AS A RIPE TARGET AS MUCH AS SOME THINK IT MIGHT BE, SO WE ACTUALLY DOUBLE UP ON SAME SIDE ATTACKS AND FOLLOW THROUGH WITH LEFT-RIGHT HANDSWORD-HAMMERFIST COMBOS OR HAMMERFIST-HANDSWORD COMBOS AS NEEDED. FURTHER, WE PUT OUR NOOBS AND EVERYONE ELSE IN "SITUATIONS" AND TELL THEM TO USE A SPECIFIC TECH OR SEQUENCE TO ESCAPE [ THIS IS PART OF "ISOLATED SPARRING " FOR US ]. YOU MIGHT BE PUT IN A UNDERHOOKING POWER HALF NELSON FROM THE FLANK...AND GOTTA ESCAPE AND USE SWORD AND HAMMER IN THE PROCESS OF ESCAPING AND FINISHING YOUR PARTNER.
SPARRING WITH THIS COMBO ON MY OWN IS HOW I CAME TO THE WHIPPING HAMMERFIST TO THE SOLAR PLEXUS/DROP HANDSWORD ON THE JUNCTURE OF THE CRANIUM AND NECK COMBO. I PASSED IT ON TO MY COACHES AND STUDENTS
ANOTHER THING: I FOUND ON THE STREET, EVEN WHEN SLAP BOXING WITH MY FRIENDS...MOST PEOPLE DON'T DEFEND THE THROAT PER SE FROM ATTACKS. A SINGLE STANK-FUNK-NASTY HANDSWORD TO THE THROAT ANYWHERE OFTENTIMES ENDS THE CONFRONTATION EVEN WHEN SLAP BOXING. SAME FOR MOST OTHER MARTIAL ARTISTS...EXCEPT FOR GOOD HAPKIDO GUYS, MUAY THAI GUYS AND GRAPPLERS. MT CLINCH WORK MAKES MANY MT GUYS INSTINCTIVELY PROTECT FROM THROAT STRIKES, AND GRAPPLERS DEFEND STRIKES LIKE THEY'RE CHOKE OR GRAB ATTEMPTS. NOT ALWAYS SUCCESSFUL BUT MUCH BETTER THAN THE AVERAGE MARTIAL ARTIST. HAPKIDO GUYS BLEND ESSENTIALLY TKD+AIKIDO+JUDO AND ARE VERY COMFY WITH DEFENDING NECK CHOPS [ TKD ] AND ALL FORMS OF COLLAR GRABS HOLDS AND SUBS [ AIKIDO+JUDO ].
DO YOU TEACH YOUR STUDENTS TO SPAR WITH HANDSWORDS AND HAMMERFISTS TO THE CARDINAL DIRECTIONS AND IN 'BULL IN THE RING' LIKE SPARRING DRILLS? IF SO...AT WHAT RANK DO YOU DO SO? AND WHAT DIFFERENCES DO YOU DRAW BETWEEN SPARRING WITH THIS COMBO AND THE ACTUAL SWORD AND HAMMER SEQUENCE AS IS TAUGHT IN YOUR SCHOOL?
As for the Arnis...well, were I to have to deal with a left handed attacker, I'd opt for just keeping my stick in my right, rather than handing it off to my left, but thats just me. 
