Suicide bombers. Split from Obama/armed forces thread

[Twin Fist]

I imagine that would give them a very different perspective on the US occupation of Iraq.

And the fact that the French, German and Russian governments had ILLEGAL business deals with Saddam I am SURE had nothing to do with their stance on occupying Iraq......Sorry Andrew, I am not trying to be snarky, and what you said has a LOT of merit.

But those cities that had to be rebuilt? I am pretty sure they didnt have to do that while learning to speak German.........Thats a WIN. Thats just my opinion of course, your milage may vary.

BUT

The threat from radical Islam is REAL, no matter which countries refuse to admit it or deal with it.
That is a fact.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

But those cities that had to be rebuilt? I am pretty sure they didnt have to do that while learning to speak German.........Thats a WIN. Thats just my opinion of course, your milage may vary.

I would be more inclined to call it "survival" than "victory" but again, that's semantics.

BUT

The threat from radical Islam is REAL, no matter which countries refuse to admit it or deal with it.
That is a fact.

Yup.

 

[Tez3]

TF, why do you always make things personal between you and other posters, as if you think that because we disagree with you we are attacking you personally? I believe yes this war is about oil, money greed and ego, do I need to justify that belief to you when you are down right rude about posts? You talk as if I put words in your mouth yet you do that exact same thing to me. I have never said your perspective is worth less than mine or that I don't think you get it. You however called my post 'crap'. You perhaps can understand why I am reluctant to enter into discourse with someone who descends to that level.
Please don't give me that disingenuous guff about apologies for appearing rude etc, you post exactly how you want to, saying exactly what you want to say regardless of how people may view it. Every post you have made has the same hectoring, pseudo hale fellow, well met, brow beating tone to them, which I'm sure is consoling when one wants to read back what one has written and feel a sense of amour-propre.

I'm interested to know though why think you were being accused of stealing oil? I recall the words I use were that the war was about oil, greed and ego, I do not however recall saying who's oil, greeed or ego, how amusing that you assume it was you being referred to! My dear, how very defensive you are!

 

[Andrew Green]

The threat from radical Islam is REAL, no matter which countries refuse to admit it or deal with it.
That is a fact.

What happens if we flip it around, do you think that countries in the Middle East feel there is a real threat from American Imperialism?

They do, which lead to the attacks, which leads to Americans feeling threatened, which leads to bombing and overthrowing government, which leads to the Middle East feeling much more threatened by American imperialism, which leads to more attacks and so on...

There may be a threat from radical Islam, but it does go the other way too, whether either or both threats are real or perceived has a lot to do with what side of the line you are standing on.

But in my view, I don't want there way of life imposed on me by force. They probably don't want mine imposed on them by force either. But now we have to sides using force to try and prevent the other side from imposing its way of life by force. I can't see how anyone is going to "win"

And as far as radical Islam goes, I think the more threatened Islam becomes, the more people will turn to the more radical views of it. The same thing seems to be happening in the States with Christianity, certain branches science and atheism finding a voice seems to have brought out more fundamentalist views, with things like "Creationist museums" sprouting up.

The US where the good guys as long as they where chasing down Bin Laden and terrorist groups. Once it became about Oil and Islam the worlds opinion changed. The more it becomes about Islam, the more Muslims are going to feel threatened and tempted to join that cause to protect there beliefs, as I imagine Christians would if it was Christianity that was in that situation.

 

[Big Don]

What happens if we flip it around, do you think that countries in the Middle East feel there is a real threat from American Imperialism?

They do, which lead to the attacks, which leads to Americans feeling threatened, which leads to bombing and overthrowing government, which leads to the Middle East feeling much more threatened by American imperialism, which leads to more attacks and so on...

There may be a threat from radical Islam, but it does go the other way too, whether either or both threats are real or perceived has a lot to do with what side of the line you are standing on.

But in my view, I don't want there way of life imposed on me by force. They probably don't want mine imposed on them by force either. But now we have to sides using force to try and prevent the other side from imposing its way of life by force. I can't see how anyone is going to "win"

And as far as radical Islam goes, I think the more threatened Islam becomes, the more people will turn to the more radical views of it. The same thing seems to be happening in the States with Christianity, certain branches science and atheism finding a voice seems to have brought out more fundamentalist views, with things like "Creationist museums" sprouting up.

The US where the good guys as long as they where chasing down Bin Laden and terrorist groups. Once it became about Oil and Islam the worlds opinion changed. The more it becomes about Islam, the more Muslims are going to feel threatened and tempted to join that cause to protect there beliefs, as I imagine Christians would if it was Christianity that was in that situation.

Yeah, because we have taken over so many countries and have colonies worldwide...
The imperialism shtick is awfully tired. Christianity is threatened in many more real ways than Islam. Those who openly practice Christian faith in many countries, mostly Islamic, by the way, but, also communist China, are actively persecuted. Not, threatened by belief in modern life...
Your anti-Christian beliefs aside, no one can rationally draw parallels between modern Islam and modern Christianity.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I worry about radical anything, though my own life has been more impacted by radical Christians than radical Muslims. Course, both want me dead and think I've no right to be. Islam is as fractured as Christianity is. Neither are "unified" and both have subsections that kill outsiders and insiders who differ with them equally.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Another point on "The Good Guys". That's our opinion. Osama's opinion is quite different. He sees himself as the good guy and us as "Evil". It's all a matter of perspective. Course, I tend to agree that we are more likely the "good guys" than they are, but visit an AQ friendly site and you'll find a much different view.

 

[Twin Fist]

tez,
I am not taking anything personal, and not trying to make anything personal. You presented an opinion, with nothing to back it up, I asked if you could tell me why you felt that way because i literally cant see how ANYONE would think that if they had looked at the facts. (And by the way, you still havnt offered any back up for that, which is ok, I guess....)

Nothin else to it. If that qualifies as being "downright rude" than i cant help you.........

You DID state what you thought i believed, which you were wrong about, so i corrected you. If that qualifies as downright rude, again, I cant help you. Nothing personal either way. But now you are calling me disingenuous, which i assure you I am not.

I am going WAY out of my way to be nice, yet You say i come across as rude? well, thats interesting. To my eyes, you are comming across pretty crabby yourself. However, I am still being polite to you because I dont assume that is your intention. I am just chalking that up to the fact that written words are often bad at conveying emotions.

I am however, getting bored with this.

Have a good day Tez

Seriously, have a good day.

 

[Big Don]

I worry about radical anything, though my own life has been more impacted by radical Christians than radical Muslims. Course, both want me dead and think I've no right to be. Islam is as fractured as Christianity is. Neither are "unified" and both have subsections that kill outsiders and insiders who differ with them equally.

Really, and when was the last Christian suicide attack?

 

[Tez3]

I worry about radical anything, though my own life has been more impacted by radical Christians than radical Muslims. Course, both want me dead and think I've no right to be. Islam is as fractured as Christianity is. Neither are "unified" and both have subsections that kill outsiders and insiders who differ with them equally.

Absolutely spot on.
I don't see Andrew's post as being anti-Christian, I see it as being able to see the bigger picture, to see how others may see our actions. Always a good thing.
Interestingly Christians were allowed to practice their faith openly in Saddams Iraq, yet Muslims of other sects were persecuted as they still are in many Muslim countries.

 

[Twin Fist]

I worry about radical anything, ............. both have subsections that kill outsiders and insiders who differ with them equally.

Bob,
While I agree with you that I worry about radical ANYTHING, the dammage currently being done is in no way equal.

last time I checked, no radical christians have flown a plane into downtown mecca. Hell, we havnt even had a clinic bombing in YEARS.

Last time i checked, even radical christians were not seeking out muslims to kill

last time i checked, radical christians were not burning down mosques. It simply hasnt happened. Even the crusades were a response to MUSLIM aggression.


crap, I am doing it again.

Can we please get back on topic, while this is interesting, it could be discussed on another thread.

 

[Tez3]

Really, and when was the last Christian suicide attack?

What on earth do you think the Catholics and Protestants are doing to each other in Northern Ireland? Very fond of blowing each other up those two sections of the Christian community are. Don't think for one minute they've stopped the sectarian violence either just because 'peace' has been declared.

 

[Twin Fist]

The same thing seems to be happening in the States with Christianity, certain branches science and atheism finding a voice seems to have brought out more fundamentalist views, with things like "Creationist museums" sprouting up.

Andrew,
Lets see, if i understand you, islam feels threatened, so they blow things up. Christians feel threatened, so they build a museum

yeah, those responses are equal............

sorry, thats snarky, i admit, but it illustrates the point pretty well.

Moral relativism doesnt work when the two opposing sides are not equal. And in this case, they are not.Radical Islam is an EVIL force. They convert BY FORCE

Christianity stopped doing that about 500 years ago.

 

[Tez3]

Oh yes and then there was the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. The Russian Orthodox Christians persecuting the Muslims in Chechyna. Or doesn't anywhere outside America actually count?

 

[Big Don]

What on earth do you think the Catholics and Protestants are doing to each other in Northern Ireland? Very fond of blowing each other up those two sections of the Christian community are. Don't think for one minute they've stopped the sectarian violence either just because 'peace' has been declared.

Show me where. Here is a link: Google search for "suicide" "bombing" "Ireland"
Gee, I see a whole lot of news stories about Muslim suicide bombings, but NONE about Christians...
Here is another: Google search for "suicide" "bombing" "Christian"
Golly, I see all kinds of people equating Islamic fanatics and Christians, but, the cold hard facts are Christians don't explode in malls, night clubs, etc...

 

[Big Don]

Andrew,
Lets see, if i understand you, islam feels threatened, so they blow things up. Christians feel threatened, so they build a museum

yeah, those responses are equal............

But, but, it's intolerant... [/liberal wussy]

sorry, thats snarky, i admit, but it illustrates the point pretty well.

Moral relativism doesnt work when the two opposing sides are not equal. And in this case, they are not.Radical Islam is an EVIL force. They convert BY FORCE

Worship or die is not intolerance?

Christianity stopped doing that about 500 years ago.

Oh, come on, Twin Fist, just because Christians aren't converting by the sword and explosive laden vest today doesn't mean they aren't big 'ol meanies...

 

[Tez3]

Andrew,
Lets see, if i understand you, islam feels threatened, so they blow things up. Christians feel threatened, so they build a museum

yeah, those responses are equal............

sorry, thats snarky, i admit, but it illustrates the point pretty well.

Moral relativism doesnt work when the two opposing sides are not equal. And in this case, they are not.Radical Islam is an EVIL force. They convert BY FORCE

Christianity stopped doing that about 500 years ago.

No they do it by blackmail now.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/apr/28varsha.htm

 

[Tez3]

Show me where. Here is a link: Google search for "suicide" "bombing" "Ireland"
Gee, I see a whole lot of news stories about Muslim suicide bombings, but NONE about Christians...
Here is another: Google search for "suicide" "bombing" "Christian"
Golly, I see all kinds of people equating Islamic fanatics and Christians, but, the cold hard facts are Christians don't explode in malls, night clubs, etc...

Actually a few IRA bombers have blown themselves up. Amused the hell out of us at the time, I remember.

An exploding Christian, google Loula Abboud, a 19 year old Christian blew herself up in 1985 in southern Lebanon.

 

[Tez3]

Future martyrs for Jesus? Potential suicide bombers?

http://journal.davidbyrne.com/2006/08/american_madras.html

 

[Twin Fist]

op-ed pieces are not all that convincing.

and ONE incident in 1985? 23 YEARS ago? not convincing

could we get back on track now?