"Successorship," rank, titles, and other goofyness...

[Joe Eccleston]

The realization hit many FMA masters (Remy Presas was the pioneer in understanding this) that FMA would get not bigger then a small, backyard type club if the pecking order and skill progression was determined by how well you could play or fight with others. The reason is that the general populus can't train the way they did in the old days; constantly fighting to establish your position. Plus, a realization hit that you can make some $$ off this stuff. So, rank was introduced, and uniforms were more widely used so people could identify their school.

This was a great post, Paul. I agree with you one hundred percent.

 

[Cruentus]

This was a great post, Paul. I agree with you one hundred percent.

Thank you sir! :asian:

 

[Black Grass]

It seemed to me that in the old days, your "seniors" were those who were older then you, or who trained longer then you, which is fitting for the culture. So, whether someone was your "junior" or "senior" did not depend on skill or any kind of deligation. Then, the rest was based on skill. Within the school, you just knew the pecking order based on who was better. So, you could be revered as one of the schools best fighters, even if you are junior to many people in the club.

:asian:

Paul,

Hit the nail on the head.

However, I find that many westerns don't understand this rank does not equal senority. And I don't blame them it hard to understand. The social hierarchy in Filipino culture (which extends to FMA culture) isn't clearly defined.

Vince
aka Black Grass

 

[Cruentus]

Paul,

Hit the nail on the head.

However, I find that many westerns don't understand this rank does not equal senority. And I don't blame them it hard to understand. The social hierarchy in Filipino culture (which extends to FMA culture) isn't clearly defined.

Vince
aka Black Grass

I agree. Even though I know more then the average FMA teacher about Filipino Culture, I sometimes find it difficult in seperating my "american" values from Filipino cultural values.

This has gotten me in trouble on more then one occasion. heh.

 

[Cruentus]

Tgace posted a great article on "leadership" here: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14316

It's worth mentioning. It's not FMA specific, but good insight all the same!

:asian:

 

[Northern]

I agree. Even though I know more then the average FMA teacher about Filipino Culture, I sometimes find it difficult in seperating my "american" values from Filipino cultural values.

This has gotten me in trouble on more then one occasion. heh.

I thought you left the house looking for trouble. :boing2:

 

[loki09789]

Sort of a side question:

When did Japanese, Chinese and Korean (sort of the holy trinity of traditional arts - at least in popularity) become so obsessed with "rank" anyway? I was thinking about this after reading through the threads.

I know that the actual Empty hand KARATE arts of Japan owe as much to Okinawa, and maybe more, as they do to the warrior arts of the samurai. In Okinawa and Japan, these arts were passed on for as practical reasons as FMA were at certain points in history. Okinawan arts continued to be more practical focused than 'rank' focused for longer than the warrior arts of Japan because of the occupation by Japanese rulers at different phases. I don't know much about Chinese or Korean arts to speak on those, but I imagine from the basic history interweaving of the cultures that similiar observations could be made about them as well.

Within the larger picture of things, "rank" focus seems to be a fairly recent innovation for all eastern arts in general.

Also(And this is in no way to diminish the 'rank' significance of martial arts but here it goes), To those who don't know any better, first timers and even some insiders, the titles/ranks within an art/system/program seem about as meaningful as the titles/ranks in Boy Scouts. We throw around terms that were originally intended to show reverence and respect to someones tribal/cultural place in the hierarchy but it was based on a whole range of criteria - almost like military rank. Now we use these terms and titles in such a narrow and focused way - but sometimes still try and impose those older assumptions and attributes to those with the title/rank.

At least in the Boy Scouts there is an emphasis on mental/physical health, social awareness, leadership, education, fitness and 'life skills' when they use the titles and terms with the Native American flair - it is far more within the spirit if the title than in martial arts as far as I am concerned. In Martial arts, the only critera is martial arts and internal political loyalties.

If the titles/ranks are to be used for more than just educational markers along the way to mastery of artistic skill. If these terms are to be meaningful as indicators of responsibility, leadership and character - then there needs to be some direct and structured instruction in the school and system that develops that part of the student ALONG with the martial skills.

This is sort of in keeping with the article that TGACE used to post a LEADERSHIP thread, check it out if you get the chance. Pretty good.