Subak's real rules with physical evidences
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Steven Lee
Blue Belt
Like I said, I don't need to deal with quibbles. My proofs & the inference just have to look smooth to objective people & scholars. I sense bias & agenda, likely for your satisfactions & the reasons tormenting my life.
Like I said, when you push beyond reasonable doubts, I don't have to deal with it. It's just a quibble. All my proofs are impeccable whether Subak's rules, Breaking's origin (power circus, not martial art), Kyuksul's origin, whatever. There are no proofs nor logical necessity (that something has to be that way) to disprove my proofs. Hence, the natural conclusion is inferred, which is plain reading out my perfect reputable references.
Like I said, when you push beyond reasonable doubts, I don't have to deal with it. It's just a quibble. All my proofs are impeccable whether Subak's rules, Breaking's origin (power circus, not martial art), Kyuksul's origin, whatever. There are no proofs nor logical necessity (that something has to be that way) to disprove my proofs. Hence, the natural conclusion is inferred, which is plain reading out my perfect reputable references.
Steven Lee
Blue Belt
In TKD case, my focus was that TKD was linked with Gwonbub. This data, proof were true. It was not disproven. The issue was that TKD having link with Gwonbub doesn't mean not having link with Karate. This was proven by further evidences provided on earlier Karate gyms in South Korea. The issue was with inference, not with proof. And there is nothing wrong with neither the proofs (no contradiction by other proofs nor logic) nor the inference. (Subak having frontal straight slap & punch doesn't mean what? No contradiction in Subak, Breaking's circus origin, Gyuksul or whatever historical topic I show.)
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Saying some pictures look a bit like something is not proof. Not by a long chalk. I also showed you the reconstructed Kwon Bop video from Muyedobotongji, which is identical to Chuan Fa. Not Taekwondo.
I've even learned that Kwonbop routine, which even as a TKD sabeom was very difficult because the techniques bear so little resemblance to those of TKD.
If Kwonbop had influence on Taekwondo, that influence was eclipsed by the much greater influence of Shotokan.
This combined with testimony from those living individuals who were there at the time, casts a more than reasonable doubt on the assertion that Kwonbop and TKD are related at all.
You basically have your ears plugged and are going lalalala right now. And you want to call it quibbling so you don't have to do any more work to flesh out your weak research.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
In the Uk 'clap' is a sexually transmitted disease. 'Claptrap' however means a right load of old rubbish. Take your pick.
If you sense bias, you've introduced it where none exists. Most of us have probably never heard of Subak before this. I know I hadn't, and entered the thread out of curiosity to see what it even was.
It's the same in the US. If I ignore all non-US sources, I can probably find evidence that we originated those terms, and you guys learned most of the language from us.
CB Jones
Senior Master
A Family secret of ours is that my ancestors invented the first martial arts known to humans....it originated as a game of slapping hands....as this cave painting shows....
Later it would be brought to the New world and with the invention of the revolver my ancestors would evolve it into......
And a more advanced method
That's because we invented English... USA, USA, USA
Yeah. And they named that island after our language, out of respect.
Disregarding the Americans who think they invented English (as if) this sentence is extremely iffy. It does nothing to reassure anyone that you know what you are talking about, do you know what an 'inference' is? Proof has to look more than 'smooth' to people, it has to, you know, look truthful. I could tell you a lot of very 'smooth' lies wrapped in beautiful, elegant English and you wouldn't know they weren't true. You are giving us your opinions masquerading as legitimate truths.
Make a statement then back it up with citations we can check.
Steven Lee
Blue Belt
Somehow, my links are not working. When I click on them, they add a bunch of letters after the file extension.
http://cafefiles.naver.net/data8/2005/5/21/49/%BC%F6%B9%DA%C8%F1_1.jpg
This picture's left guy looks like frontal slap. (The arm is fully extended. It's a frontal strike, either with palm slap or with Knife Hand. Frontal Knife Hand strike or a frontal slap. And it looks more like a frontal slap.) Also, Subak had punch like many reputable sources I quoted. Also, Breaking was self-created as a circus with trial & error (& wrestling's power motion knowhow, how to put in body momentum hard, how to swing arm hard).
Pictures are a legitimate proof. In specific sports, there are few motions & moves that can look like certain pictures. If you rule out the motions not in the sports, the pictures look like specific motions like Subak's frontal slap or Gwonbub's pictures or Kyuksul pictures.
In Gwonbub's case, it was not only the similarities in pictures to Taekwondo but also the identical name that led me to investigate Gwonbub's connection to Taekwondo.
All my proofs & inferences are smooth enough & impeccable. When a claim is supported by evidences, if there is no logical necessity or proof against it, it is good enough & smooth enough. You guys are just quibbling.
http://cafefiles.naver.net/data8/2005/5/21/49/%BC%F6%B9%DA%C8%F1_1.jpg
This picture's left guy looks like frontal slap. (The arm is fully extended. It's a frontal strike, either with palm slap or with Knife Hand. Frontal Knife Hand strike or a frontal slap. And it looks more like a frontal slap.) Also, Subak had punch like many reputable sources I quoted. Also, Breaking was self-created as a circus with trial & error (& wrestling's power motion knowhow, how to put in body momentum hard, how to swing arm hard).
Pictures are a legitimate proof. In specific sports, there are few motions & moves that can look like certain pictures. If you rule out the motions not in the sports, the pictures look like specific motions like Subak's frontal slap or Gwonbub's pictures or Kyuksul pictures.
In Gwonbub's case, it was not only the similarities in pictures to Taekwondo but also the identical name that led me to investigate Gwonbub's connection to Taekwondo.
All my proofs & inferences are smooth enough & impeccable. When a claim is supported by evidences, if there is no logical necessity or proof against it, it is good enough & smooth enough. You guys are just quibbling.
Steven Lee
Blue Belt
This was what was posted in the thread. The links are not working for some reason at the post 1. Have to manually copy the address and enter into the url bar.
I just hope I could reach many scholars & objective people with my proofs & conclusions inferred naturally & smoothly from the given data. I'm pretty much just reading out loud the writings & pictures. And yes, pictures are a legitimate proof what scenes, motions, techniques existed back then. Also proof enough to connect the dots & connect sports, especially if the name is identical.
I just hope I could reach many scholars & objective people with my proofs & conclusions inferred naturally & smoothly from the given data. I'm pretty much just reading out loud the writings & pictures. And yes, pictures are a legitimate proof what scenes, motions, techniques existed back then. Also proof enough to connect the dots & connect sports, especially if the name is identical.
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Sorry, that's rubbish.
I can show you pictures that, by your logic, show conclusively that baseball was a direct descendant of javelin.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Steven Lee
Blue Belt
Pictures are a legitimate proof what scene, motions, techniques existed in what era. Pictures are a legitimate proof which sport looks similar to what other sport, especially if the name of the sport is the same. Subak's ancient pictures prove what motions, techniques ancient Subak had. Muyedobotongji Gwonbub pictures prove that Taekwondo's Gwonbub part & Gyuksul look similar to Muyedobotongji textbook's Gwonbub. Comparison is easy especially if the motions are unique, it's easy to make connections. Pictures are used as proofs commonly in history & archaeology just as much as writings. That's a fact. Including caveman drawings. Using pictures as a proof is common in history & archaeology. Also, I have many proofs in both writings & pictures in many topics.
I have many writings for proofs in many topics. I also have many pictures for proofs in many topics. Pictures are commonly used as proofs in academia including history. There are a limited number of sports in a specific region; each sport has a limited number of motions; among the motions available, few motions can look like certain pictures. Process of elimination. Pictures are a proof cause the artist tries to imprint the real life scene into picture. Aside from that obvious logic, it's a fact that pictures are approved by Academia as proof.
I'm just hoping I could connect with many scholars & objective people. I'm presenting proofs & conclusions in the standard academic ways. Don't need to deal with quibbles & moving the goal post fallacy.
I have many writings for proofs in many topics. I also have many pictures for proofs in many topics. Pictures are commonly used as proofs in academia including history. There are a limited number of sports in a specific region; each sport has a limited number of motions; among the motions available, few motions can look like certain pictures. Process of elimination. Pictures are a proof cause the artist tries to imprint the real life scene into picture. Aside from that obvious logic, it's a fact that pictures are approved by Academia as proof.
I'm just hoping I could connect with many scholars & objective people. I'm presenting proofs & conclusions in the standard academic ways. Don't need to deal with quibbles & moving the goal post fallacy.
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Actually, that is precisely what you need to deal with, especially from scholars with a conflicting viewpoint.
As for moving goalposts - the only person I've seen that can be considered guilty of that is you.
Steven Lee
Blue Belt
No, I only need to deal with counter evidence or logical necessity. Anything else doesn't do anything. If there is nothing else, my data, proofs, conclusions, inferences are perfect. Either there is counter logic & counter evidence, or there isn't, in which case my conclusions are the facts. I don't have to deal with quibbles that are neither counter evidence provided nor counter logic (logical necessity why something is impossible) presented.
Reputable evidences say Subak had punch, so Subak had punch. Reputable picture says Subak had frontal slap (& also frontal Knife Hand strike for some pictures), so Subak had frontal slap. Reputable evidences say Subyuk had frontal slap, so it adds to Subak's frontal slap possibility. Reputable evidences say that Breaking is power circus, so Breaking isn't from martial art. Reputable pictures of the same name (Gwonbub) looks similar to many sports today, so there's a connection when that specific name was mentioned in history of Taekwondo. Also, Kyuksul looks similar to Korean Gwonbub. I have reputable evidences in many topics; if there is no counter evidence nor counter logic, my conclusions are automatically the facts.
Moving the goal post fallacy means "you have to prove this much to qualify as a proof". Like saying ancient or medieval reputable pictures can't be a proof. Like claiming I have to deal with your quibbles that are neither counter evidence nor counter logic. You people are the one moving the goal post fallacy. I'm providing all evidences to the standard level of history & archaeology.
Reputable evidences say Subak had punch, so Subak had punch. Reputable picture says Subak had frontal slap (& also frontal Knife Hand strike for some pictures), so Subak had frontal slap. Reputable evidences say Subyuk had frontal slap, so it adds to Subak's frontal slap possibility. Reputable evidences say that Breaking is power circus, so Breaking isn't from martial art. Reputable pictures of the same name (Gwonbub) looks similar to many sports today, so there's a connection when that specific name was mentioned in history of Taekwondo. Also, Kyuksul looks similar to Korean Gwonbub. I have reputable evidences in many topics; if there is no counter evidence nor counter logic, my conclusions are automatically the facts.
Moving the goal post fallacy means "you have to prove this much to qualify as a proof". Like saying ancient or medieval reputable pictures can't be a proof. Like claiming I have to deal with your quibbles that are neither counter evidence nor counter logic. You people are the one moving the goal post fallacy. I'm providing all evidences to the standard level of history & archaeology.
That is in no way the criteria to define 'perfect', or how to identify 'fact'.
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