Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill

[Martial Tucker]

It all comes down to the parents raising their kids properly. I grew up watching cartoons. I saw the roadrunner and coyote, with the coyote taking the 'beating' during the entire show, and it never inspired me to play with a stick of dynamite, jump off a cliff, etc., and think "Hey, if I jump off this cliff, the worst that'll happen to me will be a few birds flying over my head."

Mike

I loved the Roadrunner cartoons!

OK.....I'll admit this much.....as I look out my kitchen window and see the squirrels and rabbits digging up and eating all of the bulbs planted in my backyard, I do fantasize a bit about trying some of the stuff Wile E. Coyote tried to do to catch the Roadrunner....Now, I'm not about to put on a rocket pack and roller skates, but if I had a little dynamite........:bomb:

 

[Martial Tucker]

I think that parents should engage, play a larger role in knowing what their children are playing, and serve as a gate keeper to regulate the amount and type of games their children play. They should also be the voice of reality, helping a child to see the linkage of consequence and action. But that is hard work and many parents fail to spend the time and energy required. I don't think you can legislate anything that will make up for that deficiency.

BINGO!

Now, I'm not saying I'm for violent video games. There were none in my house when my kids were younger, and there never will be. What I am against is parents reaching for any excuse/scapegoat possible when their kids get in trouble, when in all likelihood if those parents had spent a little more time with the kids, things would be different.

It's all about accountability, which is disappearing in our society.

 

[arnisador]

I'm not sure I believe that cartoons cause kids to be more violent apart from encouraging the younger ones to bonk one another on the head. But more realistic movies and TV shows? Definitely.

Parental supervision is indeed the key. But with the pervasiveness of media these days, the parents' jobs are getting harder.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I'm not sure I believe that cartoons cause kids to be more violent apart from encouraging the younger ones to bonk one another on the head. But more realistic movies and TV shows? Definitely.

Parental supervision is indeed the key. But with the pervasiveness of media these days, the parents' jobs are getting harder.

Buying a V-chip isn't that hard. Monitoring what video games or movies or magazines your kids are purchasing or getting from friends isn't that hard either. Nor is spending some time of the week with your kids to help them understand and process the violence they do observe in media.

I understand that it's difficult to balance raising kids with going to work, but I don't think that's anything new.

 

[Andrew Green]

I spent much of my younger years dropping anvils on people and trying to order Acme rocket launchers, so I'd say it effected me.

Maybe one thing to consider is that video games alone do not show the pain, just the glory. Not too long ago violent play required safety measures, self-impossed ones. Otherwise everyone went home crying.

Now, kids are so protected that they don't ever get that oppurtunity to go home crying, to playfight, to learn safety in there play so as not to seriously hurt anyone.

I remember every sport being a contact sport on the playground, snowball fights, sword (stick) fighting, lots of fun stuff that taught us all about pain and how to avoid it

 

[Bigshadow]

The actual evidence is much more complex than most here realize.

The truth of the matter is that the context in which children are introduced to violence greatly modifies the impact it will have on them:

- If the violence is realistic and detailed, it will tend to sensitize children to future violence. By contrast, 'cartoony' or unrealistic violence tends to give children ambiguous attitudes about violence.

- Potential repercussions to violence impact how a child will take in violence. If violent actions have severe and immediate repercussions in the medium, this will sensitize children to violence. By contrast, delayed repercussions or (even worse) no repercussions at all will desensitize children to the effect of violence.

- If a child is exposed to images of pain and anguish as a result of violence, this will tend to sensitize him or her to violence. By contrast, when violence is portrayed as not having a victim or without images of pain, children become desensitized.

- The role of the protaganist versus the antagonist commiting violent acts will impact a child's take on violence.

- Witnessing violence commited with weapons has been demonstrated to produce greater trends of aggression in children than 'unarmed' violence.

- Most importantly, the age at which a child is exposed to violence has a great impact on how he or she reacts to violence. Before the age of 6 or so, children have a greater difficulty separating reality and fantasy (re: imaginary companions) so this carries on into any witnesses of physical violence, as well.

And, while most of the research I have read concerning these phenomena apply to television violence, it can just as easily carry over to video games.

Laterz.

Interesting... Where do the parents fit into this? I think that is the biggest factor! I have fought so many wars in the fields near my childhood home with realistic looking toy guns, I played video games, and D&D. I have not had any thoughts of killing myself or anyone else.

I let my son 11yo son watch shoot-em up movies and play games like Socom3 and so forth (with limits). However, I WILL NOT allow him to play games that glorify breaking the law, shooting police officers, running over people, the drug culture and that sort of thing. Now, in all fairness, I would NOT have let him watch movies and such that had anything above a certain level of violence and realism until he was old enough to understand the difference between reality and fiction. So, at 6yo he would not have been allowed to watch a movies such as "Over There" like he does now or go see Jarhead like we are going to do.

I think that all the points posted by Heritic888 should be controlled by the parent and I suppose my parents did these things (without knowledge of the statistics) because they cared. Unfortunately, many parents do not consider the impact on the child. Parents just cannot introduce everything to their 4 and 5 year old child carte blanche.

 

[arnisador]

Buying a V-chip isn't that hard. Monitoring what video games or movies or magazines your kids are purchasing or getting from friends isn't that hard either. Nor is spending some time of the week with your kids to help them understand and process the violence they do observe in media.

Speaking to them is good. But nowadays you've got to monitor TV, including braodcast and cable; radio; CDs; DVDs; video games, on boxes that connect to the TV and on portable devices; cell phones and iPods that play video; PDAs; magazines; and of course, the Internet. All this at your place and at their friends'. It's a lot. We have two kids and we do it. But it gets harder as the variety of media explodes.

It used to be that if it was on TV before 10PM it was probably OK (in pre-cable days). We had to stop letting our younger child watch Smallville because it was so steamy! (We thought that was a shame, by the way--it's just Superboy, after all.) It's harder now.

 

[Bigshadow]

It's a lot. We have two kids and we do it. But it gets harder as the variety of media explodes.

I agree, it is tough filling the roll of Chief Security Officer, isn't it? HAHAHA

 

[arnisador]

Some of the video games distress me--and the language the kdis use when playing them. "I killed him!" "How many did you kill?" They use this language even in games where things aren't killed by merely faint. I do fear it desensitizes them.

On the one hand it's easy to draw a line and say No to Grand Theft Auto because it's so extreme--but something as popular as Halo is hard to keep them away from! Simulators are used to train soldiers and LEOs--I think the kdis are getting "trained" too.

 

[arnisador]

Someone mentioned D&D--we played that constantly as kids, and some of my parents' friends were sure we'd be sacrificing chickens and doing witchcraft. Same when my son started playing Magic the Gathering. Some concerns are surely overblown.

 

[Cryozombie]

Some of the video games distress me--and the language the kdis use when playing them. "I killed him!" "How many did you kill?" They use this language even in games where things aren't killed by merely faint. I do fear it desensitizes them.

I did this back in the 70's... before Videogames...

"I shot you you're dead!" "I killed 50 Orks and stole their gold, then I cut teh Bugbear cheifs stomach open to see if he had been eating gold!" "The hobbit died? I cut his intestines out and drag them down the hall so I can find my way back to the body when we come back this way... that way we dont leave his remains behind..." (yes, I recall actually doing that in a game of D&D when we were lost... after we learned how much intestine you actually have if you drag it out in a striaght line)

Maybe the games are more... graphic... visualy speaking... but they pale compared to what our young minds came up with back in the day when we USED them...

 

[Bigshadow]

Maybe the games are more... graphic... visualy speaking... but they pale compared to what our young minds came up with back in the day when we USED them...

You make a good point! I think the key to this is... When the kid uses their imagination, it isn't confused with reality, it is internal. For instance, the 4 or 5 year old kid imagines things but they won't typically confuse it with reality, on the other hand, if it comes from an external source (ie, video games, movies, and the like), I think they can more easily confuse it with reality, especially so when they are not at the age where they can realize the difference.

 

[arnisador]

It's a good point. We were the same with D&D. But yeah, I think the visual reinforcement and the long hours of solo play do make a difference, as does keying it to a triggering motion with the hands.

 

[Solidman82]

First of all, who gives a BB gun to an 11 year old boy and expects him not to be curious about the consequences of shooting someone. That need to learn comes from videogames but it also comes from the news, any action movie and all of TV. Second, The only way to desensitize a kid enough from right and wrong that they will think violence is fine and forget that it's also called murder, would be to lock the kid in a dark room, staple his/her eyes open, hypnotize them and then show them death and gore all day and tell them it's a good thing like Martha Stewart.

Videogames and Cartoons don't make violent kids. Kids being crazy makes kids into violent kids.

 

[heretic888]

Heretic888, would this mean cartoons watched at a young age produce more violent adults?

All other things being equal, it would increase the likelihood of the adult having ambiguous or desensitized perceptions of physical violence. This does not, in and of itself, mean the adult will be a more violent individual, however.

However, the problem is that things are almost never 'all other things being equal'. It may very well be that cartoon-watching children are correlated with more responsible adult parents that are there to give the programming a culturally-appropriate context for the children to relate to.

The point I was making was that there are a number of contextual issues pertaining to how violent media affect children, and this issue is infinitely more complex than a simplistic 'watching violence makes kids more violent'. The key issue here is the context, both of the programming content itself and the psychological context of the child (ex: two year old versus seven year old).

But, at no point will you ever hear me making sweeping generalizations or simplistic adages about the issue. It simply can't be reduced to that, regardless of what others would have you believe.

Laterz.

 

[heretic888]

Increases in Violent crime commited by children? or in general? After all, WWI and WWII were never accused of making our Children into killers, were they?

There is a correlative increase in national rates of violent criminal activity as a country enters into wartime. This is correlation, not causation.

Laterz.

 

[qizmoduis]

I find it curious that the excerpt quoted by the OP was suggesting that video games created not just a mindset, but actual physical abilities that enabled the shooter to fire a gun with surprising accuracy.

Now, I've never fired a gun myself, but I've certainly played plenty of FPS-style games, starting with Castle Wolfenstein and Doom many years ago. Does this suggest I'd be able to buy a gun and instantly win target-shotting trophies?

Cool!

What I find kinda strange is the rather odd comparison between the accuracy of shots fired in police shootouts vs. firing into a large group of closely-packed, completely unaware people.

 

[Shaolinwind]

This topic has been covered before, but I feel the study is a better place for it than the computer room.

Do video games cause people to become violent?

Before you consider this, I'll enlighten you with something I read in "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker, both him and his book highly praised by all. What de Becker says is that violence is a process, not a single action. A person commits suicide and people ask why. "Oh, he was depressed over financial losses," they'll answer. But many people become depressed over financial losses and don't kill themselves. Can financial losses be the cause of suicide?

Similarly, when a kid who plays video games plentifully goes on a shooting spree and people blame the video games, doesn't the same logic apply? I've been playing video games since I was seven, shooters and fighting games being two of my favorite genres, and I never even considered killing anyone. I'm sure many people here play video games and never thought of killing a real human being.

Here is a excert (I think) from Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman:

One of my shooter games racks up your stats and saves them on a profile. Seeing as my net play time is about two and a half days, I'd call it a fair evaluation of my skill in the game. While I score very high on killing and surviving, my accuracy is too good. And indeed, when I went into the army, my accuracy with an M-16 wasn't all that great either.

Suprisingly, this book is endorsed by de Becker's firm. Seems to me like a suspension of judgement to me.

Any thoughts?

Isn't it funny how modern problems are blamed on the products of popular culture and not the culture itself. 20 years ago Judas Priest made kids kill themselves, and I think D&D holds claim to the same fame.

With video games, perhaps a comprimise is in order. Only let kids play "Bushido Blade" so they at least kill in an honorable fashion.

Oh here's a good idea! Raise your kids not to be friggin' jerks.

But I digress.