stick sparring

[jarrod]

i did some free sparring with a stick for the first time in a few years. we had limited safety equipment so the head was off limits & we had to go fairly slow & controlled, but i think we learned a lot. we did 3ft stick vs 2ft, & 3ft vs 3ft.

we've been primarily practicing glen doyle's irish method, with some other stuff thrown in. after my partner had patterned me pretty well, i switched to a fencing type style that i'd dabbled in for a year or so. this tripped him up a lot but he was starting to get the hang of it by the time we quit. i think that glen's method (it's a two handed style, for those who haven't seen it) will be much more valuable when we have enough protection to do more close range fighting. whenever one of us moved into close range, the defender would start letting fly a little fast & heavy, so we agreed to stay long/medium range.

lots of fun. we drilled for about 90min, then sparred for 90min more. i'm very tired.

jf

 

[arnisador]

What I've seen of the Irish method--via the web only--definitely seems more for close range. Remember, not all systems are intended for stick dueling either!

 

[jarrod]

good point, & that's why we're interpreting things loosely.

jf

 

[lklawson]

Glen's style has a lot in common with one of the methods in Percy Longhurts' text on "Fighting with a blackthorn" and some of the 2-handed Andalusian cane styles, neither of which are designed for use against another stick. It also bears some resemblance to Fairbairn's military stick style.

Mr. Doyle's method makes sense against a choked up "1/3 grip" similar to what Ken Pfrenger teaches in his reconstructed style but would require some presence of mind against a more FMA/IMA style. Not that it wouldn't work, you just would have to know what the weaknesses of the style were and how the opponent would try to exploit them.

I don't belive that, historically speaking, the style Mr. Doyle teaches was intended to be used against FMA/IMA/non-Irish WMA stylistic methods. No doubt Mr. Doyle teaches adaptations which work for that purpose, though.

As I have stated elsewhere, it makes sense to me that these methods look similar. When you hold a stick a certain way, there's only so many ways you can use it effectively from that grip.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

What I've seen of the Irish method--via the web only--definitely seems more for close range. Remember, not all systems are intended for stick dueling either!

A lot of Irish methods were intended for dueling stick-to-stick, or stick-to-weapon. The Irish "Faction Fights" were part mass brawl, part mass duel. Sometimes there were (sorta) rules about what could and could not be done, but frequently it was "club the other fella 'till he can't stand or gives up."

Additionally, there are recorded instances of stick duels in Irish culture. IMS, Carlton relates some examples and there are a few others floating around too. Funny thing, these stick duels often include boxing, kicking, and grappling.

In the case of Mr. Doyle's style, IIRC, he states that his oral family history holds they developed their style as a Self Defense method for use defending their illegal whiskey stills and generally expected it to be used against other Irish stick methods; the progenerator of the style being a Boxer.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[jarrod]

with a few adaptations, we had good luck using rinse an bhata vs. fma (my partner trained arnis for 5yrs) due largely to the reach advantage. i played for a bit with the one handed 1/3 choke grip, & couldn't execute much against the two hand style other than a few lucky hits. of course, i haven't trained with that grip hardly at all. but as you said, it was fairly evident that rinse an bhata was designed specifically to deal with that approach, i think.

based on the close range drilling we've done, mr doyle's style blends very well with the muay thai & judo that i've done. adding close range stick techniqus to knee strikes & sweeps really allows a lot of options.

jf

 

[arnisador]

The knob gives you some hooking options and if it lands it's going to hurt! A good FMA largo game is hard to beat, but if you use the full length of the shillelagh then who knows!

 

[jarrod]

i don't doubt your right. but with two dudes whacking each other in the backyard, the guy with the longer stick won!

jf