State Senator Proposes Gun Offender Registry

[MJS]

I am not a big one on lists.
What are they proposing are the requirements for being put on one of these lists, and what exactly does that mean?
I dont really see a use for it that does not already have an answer.
my radar goes off anytime anyone starts talking about putting a list together of people associated with guns. I know they are wanting to associate this with gun offenders, but gun offenders in what way?
someone who simply uses a gun while committing a crime?
or anyone who commits a crime, who also happens to own a gun but may not have necessarily used it during that crime?....
or anyone who owns a gun who commits any infraction or worse?
no I see no reason for people to be making lists of people with guns, and if your a felon isnt it illegal to have a gun anyways?

As I said to Bill, I'd imagine a list of crimes, circumstances, etc. would be determined. If you did something to fit the bill, then you'd end up on the list.

 

[MJS]

There is a caution code for armed in NCIC or is that a stse thing? We get caution codes for armed, past drug user, resist arrests, and assaults on police may be a few more I dont remember I have not run a name in a few years.

Yes, I've seen those codes as well. However, simply running the name, ie: on a mv stop, will not generate that info. If they're say, a supervised person, when you run that info, yes, then it would show up. But as I said, you gotta go the extra step.

 

[MJS]

I was more saying most officers know who the real nasty criminals in there posts or areas unless you are always changing. I know when I go in certain housing projects which guys are the shooters, dealers, fighters and runners. If someone has committed something to get on the list then I would hope most officers already know him. At least where I work they people never leave they stay in the same neighborhood there whole lives. Unless they have warrants then they go hide a few blocks over because we will never find them there lol. But for us when I run a name our dispatchers are supposed to check them thru our in house and county wide computer database and any gun crimes will pop up. I also thought NCIC had caution codes for that stuff already.
Either way it wont effect me since I wont be running the checks but it seems like just one more program that has no real effect on stopping crimes. I treat everyone as if they are armed anyway so me knowing they have prior gun charges wont change the way I do my job. I was taught from day one every where you go there is a gun easily available to the bad guy if her wants it and its strapped to your hip.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Yes, many times, another officer, who's listening to the radio, who hears someone on a stop with someone known for fighting, known for having/dealing drugs, weapons, fighting, etc., they usually make sure the officer thats out with that person, knows. Thats good IMO...nothing wrong with officer safety.

 

[ballen0351]

Yes, I've seen those codes as well. However, simply running the name, ie: on a mv stop, will not generate that info. If they're say, a supervised person, when you run that info, yes, then it would show up. But as I said, you gotta go the extra step.

Maybe our dispatchers just run the name automatically because all we do is give name and dob and we are given driving records, wanted checks, and caution codes. I just figured everyone was like that if not they should be.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

1) Going on what I've seen, the people on the sex offender list are the ones who've raped, molested kids, etc.

I'm looking at the Michigan list right now; I put in my zip code and I see ...

http://www.mipsor.state.mi.us/

Just on my street - and I live in a good neighborhood - 4th degree sex assault, minor; and 1 indecent exposure. By the way, public urination is arrested and tried as 'indecent exposure' in MI. We've had that discussion before.

2) I'm sure it happens, just like I'm sure that after 9-11, people took out anger on small stores run by Arabs. I'm sure some people have played the role of Charles Bronson, ala Death Wish, but I dont think it happens as much as some may think.

3) That I'd imagine, would have to be deterined by the courts. I'd say things such as armed robbery with a gun, killing someone with a gun..things of that nature.

4) Again, that'd have to be determined. I'd imagine it'd depend on the crime.

5) According to the article, I believe it'd just be LE, but its possible it could be made public.

6) I doubt he'd be arrested. That'd be no different than you DL being expired. Everything checks out, and you're not a dick to the cop, I'd say a ticket would suffice.

My point is this - you can get arrested - perhaps if you're in a bad mood or the cop is, and the license is expired, and then you're a 'gun criminal'.

I just don't see the advantage of it.

Lists like this, started with the best of intentions, can too easily be abused.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

As I said to Bill, I'd imagine a list of crimes, circumstances, etc. would be determined. If you did something to fit the bill, then you'd end up on the list.

And next election cycle, or the one after that, an anti-gun person gets elected, and the list gets enlarged a bit. It's just another way to end up on someone's list. No thanks.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

As I said to Bill, I'd imagine a list of crimes, circumstances, etc. would be determined. If you did something to fit the bill, then you'd end up on the list.

And by the way, that's the same reason I don't have a CCW and never will. Do not want to be on a list of known gun owners.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Seems to make about as much sense a sex offender registry, and is probably more useful from an LEO safety standpoint.

Not that I'm saying I think a sex offender registry makes all that much sense....

 

[MJS]

Maybe our dispatchers just run the name automatically because all we do is give name and dob and we are given driving records, wanted checks, and caution codes. I just figured everyone was like that if not they should be.

Nope, we only do what they ask for. Like I said, if someone runs a name/dob on a stop, and it shows the guy is on probation, yes, I go ahead and run the prob. info. But if nothing comes up when I run the name, I dont dig further, as I said, unless they ask. Sometimes you'll get 2-3 officers all running plates, stopping cars, all at the same time, so to do more than what they ask for, would take too much time.

 

[MJS]

I'm looking at the Michigan list right now; I put in my zip code and I see ...

http://www.mipsor.state.mi.us/

Just on my street - and I live in a good neighborhood - 4th degree sex assault, minor; and 1 indecent exposure. By the way, public urination is arrested and tried as 'indecent exposure' in MI. We've had that discussion before.

I've taken a peek at the sex offender list, typed in my area, and saw a few, and like you, I live in a good area as well.

My point is this - you can get arrested - perhaps if you're in a bad mood or the cop is, and the license is expired, and then you're a 'gun criminal'.

I just don't see the advantage of it.

Lists like this, started with the best of intentions, can too easily be abused.

True, anything is possible.

And next election cycle, or the one after that, an anti-gun person gets elected, and the list gets enlarged a bit. It's just another way to end up on someone's list. No thanks.

True, anything is possible. IMO, I'd think that someone would only end up on the list if they were a badguy. Any responsible, law abiding citizen shouldn't have anything to worry about. Again, this is only my assumption. I'm not claiming to say this is what would happen.

And by the way, that's the same reason I don't have a CCW and never will. Do not want to be on a list of known gun owners.

My wife isn't a big gun fan, thus the reason I dont have one.

 

[ballen0351]

Nope, we only do what they ask for. Like I said, if someone runs a name/dob on a stop, and it shows the guy is on probation, yes, I go ahead and run the prob. info. But if nothing comes up when I run the name, I dont dig further, as I said, unless they ask. Sometimes you'll get 2-3 officers all running plates, stopping cars, all at the same time, so to do more than what they ask for, would take too much time.

I asked one of the dispatchers about this last night. She said our system automatically runs all the info if you ask for it or not. They run the name one time and it checks NCIC, in house, Drivers records, any caution codes, sex offender registry, parole and probation records all at once.

 

[MJS]

I asked one of the dispatchers about this last night. She said our system automatically runs all the info if you ask for it or not. They run the name one time and it checks NCIC, in house, Drivers records, any caution codes, sex offender registry, parole and probation records all at once.

Ours pretty much does the same thing, minus the inhouse stuff. Lets say I run John Smith, dob 1-3-1984. If he's supervised, I'll get the code for supervised person next to his name. If he has a warrant, I'll get that code as well. Sex offender, I'll get that code. If I see any of these codes, I'll dig further. If the officer asks me to run the Op. thats all I do. I have the ability to look at the persons MV history, but I dont unless I'm asked. I also do not run what we call an SPRC (State Police Records Check) which will tell me if he's been arrested, unless I'm asked.

Just to clarify, thats what I meant by digging further. If the obvious is there, yes, I check. Other stuff, only when asked.

 

[MJS]

We have a gun file system, in which I can check anyone in the state, to see what type of gun(s) they own, make, model, etc. This system however does not allow me to see whether or not these people have committed a crime.

It would be nice, if, when running a name, op, etc., if a gun registry was in place, so that little number comes up next to their name, so the officer can be given a heads up.

 

[jks9199]

Nope, we only do what they ask for. Like I said, if someone runs a name/dob on a stop, and it shows the guy is on probation, yes, I go ahead and run the prob. info. But if nothing comes up when I run the name, I dont dig further, as I said, unless they ask. Sometimes you'll get 2-3 officers all running plates, stopping cars, all at the same time, so to do more than what they ask for, would take too much time.

Whether we run 'em ourselves via CAD or dispatch runs 'em for us, it's rare for them to do more than a basic wants/driver license check via VCIN and NCIC. If it's not going to pop up via those checks, we aren't likely to know. We don't and cannot run criminal history checks on every stop...

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Any responsible, law abiding citizen shouldn't have anything to worry about.

That statement, no matter who utters it or for what reason, always makes me itchy.

Good intentions and what road is paved with them and all that.

Just a simple cost-benefit analysis though; what is it we gain in return for the expense?

And if we're going to simply make lists because they might be useful to law enforcement, why don't we have a national gun registry? I mean, if you are a law-abiding citizen, you shouldn't have anything to worry about...

 

[MJS]

Whether we run 'em ourselves via CAD or dispatch runs 'em for us, it's rare for them to do more than a basic wants/driver license check via VCIN and NCIC. If it's not going to pop up via those checks, we aren't likely to know. We don't and cannot run criminal history checks on every stop...

Exactly. Thats the point I was trying to make before. Like I said, sometimes, these guys really get going, pulling over car after car. Sometimes there'll be 3 or 4 on a stop at the same time. Way too much to run, other than basic stuff, unless asked for.

 

[MJS]

That statement, no matter who utters it or for what reason, always makes me itchy.

Good intentions and what road is paved with them and all that.

Just a simple cost-benefit analysis though; what is it we gain in return for the expense?

And if we're going to simply make lists because they might be useful to law enforcement, why don't we have a national gun registry? I mean, if you are a law-abiding citizen, you shouldn't have anything to worry about...

Sorry about that Bill. I simply said earlier, that I thought this was a good idea. First and foremost, my head was thinking for LE purposes only, but hey, if the state wants to make it public, like the sex offender registry, then fine, make it public. All its going to do for the public, is allow a citizen to search and see if there're any gun offenders in their neighborhood. LEOs...well, as I said, it'll be just one more piece of info when they're on a stop, running names, etc.

I guess I'm still missing what the big deal is for the average law abiding citizen. I mean, cops run radar all the time. As long as I am within the legal posted speed limit for the road I'm driving on, I should have nothing to worry about. I could own a gun, solely for the purpose of target practice and home protection. As long as I dont start waving the gun around like a maniac and making threats or trying to rob someone, then I shouldn't have any issues.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Sorry about that Bill. I simply said earlier, that I thought this was a good idea. First and foremost, my head was thinking for LE purposes only, but hey, if the state wants to make it public, like the sex offender registry, then fine, make it public. All its going to do for the public, is allow a citizen to search and see if there're any gun offenders in their neighborhood. LEOs...well, as I said, it'll be just one more piece of info when they're on a stop, running names, etc.

I guess I'm still missing what the big deal is for the average law abiding citizen. I mean, cops run radar all the time. As long as I am within the legal posted speed limit for the road I'm driving on, I should have nothing to worry about. I could own a gun, solely for the purpose of target practice and home protection. As long as I dont start waving the gun around like a maniac and making threats or trying to rob someone, then I shouldn't have any issues.

Shouldn't.

Pardon me for not trusting that bad things won't happen in the name of goodness.

As I pointed out earlier, all it will take is a couple sessions of left-wing majority in a state legislature, and that 'bad people only' list will mysteriously expand to include 'gun criminals' who have committed such heinous crimes as failing to keep their CCW up to date or been caught hunting with an expired deer tag or ... you name it. I don't trust politicians, and I don't think the proposed benefit is worth the risk. I'm no Manumauku but I'm still paranoid.

Sorry, I just don't go for 'trust us, we won't misuse this' kind of thing. The police have enough information and enough power.

 

[ballen0351]

Exactly. Thats the point I was trying to make before. Like I said, sometimes, these guys really get going, pulling over car after car. Sometimes there'll be 3 or 4 on a stop at the same time. Way too much to run, other than basic stuff, unless asked for.

Apparently it all in the system they use. Ours runs everything automatically it take no other steps other then a soundex or name and DOB. It a new system that apparently cost an obscene amount of money which makes me so happy that I'm taking Furlough days but they can spend all that cash on a computer system

 

[MJS]

Shouldn't.

Pardon me for not trusting that bad things won't happen in the name of goodness.

As I pointed out earlier, all it will take is a couple sessions of left-wing majority in a state legislature, and that 'bad people only' list will mysteriously expand to include 'gun criminals' who have committed such heinous crimes as failing to keep their CCW up to date or been caught hunting with an expired deer tag or ... you name it. I don't trust politicians, and I don't think the proposed benefit is worth the risk. I'm no Manumauku but I'm still paranoid.

Sorry, I just don't go for 'trust us, we won't misuse this' kind of thing. The police have enough information and enough power.

Points taken Bill, and I'll respect your opinion. Who knows...if this were to actually happen, what you said could be a reality.

While this is slightly off topic, let me ask you this: do you feel that the current sex offender registry is running as it should?