Seabrook
Black Belt
I suggest using a reverse bow as you pin and step back, thereby giving your opponent an angle of disturbance.
Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
parkerkarate
Blue Belt
Marry said:
I was always taught to first pin both of his hands with your right hand and than to step back and ummm "squeeze the peach"
parkerkarate
Blue Belt
This way you do not have to worry about blocking anything. But you must know where the opponents head is.
I
Isrephael
Guest
I think I'd go with an entirely different response.
1) Drop suddenly/forcefully into a deep, low horse stance, while flashing both arms up to the side (Crane-fashion). The dropping combined with the arm leverage should at least get your arms free to the elbow.
From here I'd go with two possibilties:
2a) Double Eagle's Claw seizes of the both achille's tendons, throwing arms out while driving up with your legs/dilating the body. This should ground your opponent. Finish with a heel stomp to the groin and escape.
2b) Double Dragon's Fist strike to the nerve centers in hands/wrists, Dragon spiral to face opponent with knees/elbows/etc to clear the way. Spiral/Dan Tien launched front strike to the solar plexus as you spin into place. Then the fight will be on equal footing. Open Can O' Whoop@rse. Apply liberally.
1) Drop suddenly/forcefully into a deep, low horse stance, while flashing both arms up to the side (Crane-fashion). The dropping combined with the arm leverage should at least get your arms free to the elbow.
From here I'd go with two possibilties:
2a) Double Eagle's Claw seizes of the both achille's tendons, throwing arms out while driving up with your legs/dilating the body. This should ground your opponent. Finish with a heel stomp to the groin and escape.
2b) Double Dragon's Fist strike to the nerve centers in hands/wrists, Dragon spiral to face opponent with knees/elbows/etc to clear the way. Spiral/Dan Tien launched front strike to the solar plexus as you spin into place. Then the fight will be on equal footing. Open Can O' Whoop@rse. Apply liberally.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
1. I don't think so. The horse stance won't give you a bracing angle against a rear attack, and you'll be down.
2. a) I'm pretty sure these, "Achilles tendon grabs," assuming you can get down there without being crunched face first into the ground, will not remotely work against at least three people I train with regularly; b) in kenpo, the preferable techniques would be Twirling Sacrifice or Scraping Hooves, if you were in the position to do tham against a rear bear hug, which you probably aren't.
3. Uh...no. You've been bear hugged and your arms are pinned; you're not going to get your hands up and hit those wrists, and if you could, you'd try something like the technique Menacing Twirl...
4. Sorry, but your first and third options are based entirely on upper-case attacks--"Squeezing," goes lower case, because it has to. And the second one, sorry again, just doesn't seem remotely realistic, as you'd have to somehow get both arms out of their pin before anything else happened.
5. You'd actually be better off just screwing up, allowing yourself to get yanked back, and accidentally head-butt the attcker as your head whipped back.
2. a) I'm pretty sure these, "Achilles tendon grabs," assuming you can get down there without being crunched face first into the ground, will not remotely work against at least three people I train with regularly; b) in kenpo, the preferable techniques would be Twirling Sacrifice or Scraping Hooves, if you were in the position to do tham against a rear bear hug, which you probably aren't.
3. Uh...no. You've been bear hugged and your arms are pinned; you're not going to get your hands up and hit those wrists, and if you could, you'd try something like the technique Menacing Twirl...
4. Sorry, but your first and third options are based entirely on upper-case attacks--"Squeezing," goes lower case, because it has to. And the second one, sorry again, just doesn't seem remotely realistic, as you'd have to somehow get both arms out of their pin before anything else happened.
5. You'd actually be better off just screwing up, allowing yourself to get yanked back, and accidentally head-butt the attcker as your head whipped back.
parkerkarate
Blue Belt
The guy can still pick you up in a horse stance, that is why with all of those techniques with a bear-hug you do not just step to the side in a horse stance, you step back slightly with whatever foot you are supposed to. Now that I think about it there are other techniques where you should do that also. Cross of Destuction for example.
Doc
Senior Master
Stepping back will not lend you stability with an aggressive attacker in all circumstances. Whatever the technique, you must survive his initial attack and arrive at some measure of control before you attempt to counter. You will find you may have more success with this technique if you step forward first.parkerkarate said:
Doc
Senior Master
Yes sir, I think most consider these technique in a pristine environment. These types of attacks almost always bring an expeditious attack to catch you unaware. This fact alone will insure you will be "hit" with his "mass" and driven forward to an extent before he attempts to follow up with his intentions. If a person is incapable of absorbing and countering this, they've already lost.kenmpoka said:
Could you please give me a call, I've got some people I need you to talk to.
Dark Kenpo Lord
Brown Belt
Now this is a ponderable, NOT. The catalyst for STP is for a BHAP with a pull back to 6. If the intial action is a push, the extension for the technique works in it's place, it (the extension) is afterall, a technique unto itself.kenmpoka said:
DarK LorD
Dark Kenpo Lord
Brown Belt
I've had people try that, they ended up in a vertical rear naked choke.Isrephael said:
DarK LorD
Dark Kenpo Lord said:
Yes, if you go by the book in a perfect ideal stage. But my friend any bear hug from the rear will have some initial pushing / tackle effect. Then if the attacker decides to pull you to 6, then you go a la STP.
Much like "Delayed Sword" where the intial grab pushes the shoulder back if not the whole body.
Salute,
P.S. your absolutely right about the naked choke, unless you tilt your body forward (with a butt strike) and then follow thru...... (the tek can be found in the traditional kata "Gojushiho", just for a reference)
This is worth noting, since it's one of the things people flow to from almost any kind of grab from behind.Dark Kenpo Lord said:
Aside from pushing and pulling, it's very common (and effective) to go from a bearhug style grip to spinning and slamming, either by sweeping the leg or by lifting and pivoting, or (as a wrestler might try), stepping in then dropping backwards in a roll or arch, landing you on your head. I personally enjoy using a variant where I let the person raise an arm, then prop it while sealing the other arm and the hollow of the elbow joint. If they try to get a shot back, that's great; I get a decent arm drag or standing elbow lock from there. I either roll back and press my hips up or ride the person right to the ground.
Given that I'm trying to press my thigh right up againts the other person and driving my head to their neck, a headbutt and groin strike are pretty difficult to land. As the bear hugger I want to seal off as much space as possible to prevent a shot and get my hips to *replace* the location of your hips as forcefully as possible.
You want to:
* get my grip as far away from my center of mass as possible.
* keep the fold or joint of the elbow from being pressed.
* keep your shoulders level, so your armpit doesn't become a way for me to float your upper body.
Dark Kenpo Lord
Brown Belt
kenmpoka said:
The ext. to STP is still an ideal phase but most don't or won't recognize these extensions as individual techs.
I know I'm right about the choke, I've done it to more people than I can count LOL.
DarK LorD
Dark Kenpo Lord said:
Clyde, all I am saying is that anyone with an intent to bear hug, specially a guy will come at you in a form of a tackle/push/hug, right shoulder and right leg leading in case of a right handed person, that will bounce you forward to a certain degree. So in that case, you'll need to, as Doc ChapƩl puts it, survive the initial assault, and then move back into his leg......
The ext. to STP as I remember, excludes squeezing the peach, by moving in, out and backin to the other side, checking the attacker's left leg....but still the tackle effect remains the same initially. What do you think?
Salute,
parkerkarate
Blue Belt
kenmpoka said:
I totally agree with you
BallistikMike
Green Belt
I really have to agree with the most important part of "Surviving" the initial attack. Without this you have nothing.
Van pulls up next to you you turn and look... WHAM! Bear hug from behind with LOTS of forward pressure lifting you off your feet ... moving you towards the now open van door. Kidnapping a snatch and grab.
You better make darn sure you dont get in that van or your dead.
More then likely the person throwing the bear hug on you will be bigger, stronger and have a very well lined out purpose for doing it.
You must survive that if you want to pull off ANY technique.
Granted you could just as well be picked up by a drunk in a bar trying to help break up a fight. Their are no absolutes, except Surviving the attack.
Much more knowledgable people about the actual specifics of the rear bear hug arms pinned technique can chime in about that. I just wanted to say how much I liked the description ... "Survive the initial attack..."
Van pulls up next to you you turn and look... WHAM! Bear hug from behind with LOTS of forward pressure lifting you off your feet ... moving you towards the now open van door. Kidnapping a snatch and grab.
You better make darn sure you dont get in that van or your dead.
More then likely the person throwing the bear hug on you will be bigger, stronger and have a very well lined out purpose for doing it.
You must survive that if you want to pull off ANY technique.
Granted you could just as well be picked up by a drunk in a bar trying to help break up a fight. Their are no absolutes, except Surviving the attack.
Much more knowledgable people about the actual specifics of the rear bear hug arms pinned technique can chime in about that. I just wanted to say how much I liked the description ... "Survive the initial attack..."
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