Special forces MA???

[AceHBK]

I KNOW someone must have created a thread about this before but I can't find it. If you can find it, pasting the link would be great and I apologize for creating a thread already done probably numerous times.

On to my question....

I see alot of places saying "Learn MA that is taught in the secret forces and in government agencies". I doubt that there is something great they are teaching them, but what are they learning? Is it one specific system or a combo of things? I have heard of people in military learning everything from Wing Chun to karate and other stuff.
My best friend dad is a ex Navy SEAL 20 yr vet.
I remember in high school asking him what all they learned and him giving me the simple answer "We learn hand to hand combat and u never kick without punching and never punch without kicking."
What is true and what is not true about all this stuff?
What are the facts and what are the myths?
Thanks!

 

[Martial Tucker]

I know a couple of people who are either familiar or actually involved in SOF-
H2H training, and from what I understand, they don't spend as much time on it as most people think. They have too many other things to learn and drill on, and when they do train for H2H, they spend as much time on the attitude/psychological side of it as on "techniques". As for which arts, I'm told it varies, but typically includes an eclectic mix of jujitsu, silat, hapkido, and some BJJ.
Definitely biased towards throwing/grappling/locking arts. A fight between military combatants is going to go to the ground very quickly. You are not going to see two enemy combatants stand there and exchange punches and kicks.

There is a minimum amount of training required, set by policy. This can be modified upward at the discretion of the Unit Leader or by request of an individual soldier.

 

[Andrew Green]

my understanding is not much, hand to hand is a quick and dirty approach and not at all emphasized seeing as combatants carry weapons.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I just attended a seminar featuring a veteran and Special Forces instructor Micheal Robert Pick. It featured things such as full mass engagement, killing quietly with blood flow control, and last but not least the attitude of killing vs the attitude of self defense. We didn't go over kicking methods unless you count stomping on the throat as a kick. Also some various buckling methods were covered which are kickish.
Sean

 

[Gemini]

A friend of mine was Special Forces and told me most of his MA training (Jujitsu and Judo) was what he brought in with him. I don't remember him telling me he had much, if any formal training there. Then again, there were many things he never talked about regarding his service time.

 

[Touch Of Death]

A friend of mine was Special Forces and told me most of his MA training (Jujitsu and Judo) was what he brought in with him. I don't remember him telling me he had much, if any formal training there. Then again, there were many things he never talked about regarding his service time.

Being that firing a weapon is your primary function, you cannot afford broken fingers. Very little martial arts experience relates to fighting a soldier wearing full battle gear... or so I've heared.
Sean

 

[bignick]

The latest army combatives manual is almost exclusively BJJ. It's more for encouraging aggresive, competitive behavior than real world, combat situation type stuff from what I've seen.

 

[Gemini]

Being that firing a weapon is your primary function, you cannot afford broken fingers. Very little martial arts experience relates to fighting a soldier wearing full battle gear... or so I've heared.
Sean

That was often not SF's primary function nor is what we consider full battle gear the same as everyone elses, even in today's armies. But to your point, yes, I was told the same. Hand to hand combat was not a primary concern, regardless of what specialty they possessed.

 

[Blindside]

My kali instructor is a contract instructor for the 19th group (SF), but the training is essentially optional. If members are interested they go to him to train, if they aren't, they don't. My feeling is that the number that don't far exceed the number that do. Besides kali he also does some combatives, but it is mostly weapon based.

Lamont

PS: My first time meeting alot of these guys I was a bit intimidated by the whole idea of them being SF trained.... right up until we started doing power striking and one of them whacked himself in the leg and two others threw their sticks into the back wall.

 

[Touch Of Death]

That was often not SF's primary function nor is what we consider full battle gear the same as everyone elses, even in today's armies. But to your point, yes, I was told the same. Hand to hand combat was not a primary concern, regardless of what specialty they possessed.

Actualy I was refering to the enemy's full battle gear. LOL
Sean

 

[Cirdan]

"deadly arts" taught in the military are hugely overrated and a result of charlatan$ marketing their questionable skills. Tough there are exceptions, H2H combat beyond a bare minimum is generally priority ZULU. :apv:

 

[MSUTKD]

The amount of H2H in Special Forces training is about 6hrs..total. The military uses "KaGun". If you have to go H2H, you have already failed. The stuff in the movies, seminars, etc... is about $. Most of the guys already do some type of fighting, it is just in their nature, so there is a lot of cross training going on.

ron

 

[stone_dragone]

SOCOM (Special Operations Commands) have units of every size virtually where-ever there is a military installation. Many Special Operations personnel (as well as conventional personnel and civilians) will choose to study martial arts at a school off post/base. The same occurs with Law Enforcement personnel. Some of those civilian instructors will be invited/contracted to teach their arts to the units/organizations that their students belong to. This often results in the claim that the instructor "...Teaches/has taught his [insert evil sounding adjective here] brand of unarmed combat to the [insert organization here]."

A recent article in "Stars and Stripes" indicates that the US Army, in one of their reorganizing efforts, will be slowly reducing the number of conventional units in order to increase the number of Special Operations Units (including Civil Affairs units) [I'm sorry I can't remember the exact article or wording, but that's the jist]. This type of occurance will result in even larger amount of "Special Forces Deadly Hand to Hand Instructors".

When I was teaching in Tennessee, I taught personnel from both 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (ABN) and 5th Special Forces Group (ABN). I guess that make me one of those guys mentioned above, too.....not so much.

 

[SAVAGE]

There was a unit called the COUNTER REVOLUTIONARY WARFARE UNIT...they were the elite of the Republic of Fiji Military forces..I train under the same men that trained them...in the same art as they were taught!

The CRW was disbanded after they helped to overthrow the government in Fiji!

 

[Cujo]

I was assigned to 9th Psyop Bn. 1st SOCOM out of Ft. Bragg from 1988-1990 before I was medically discharged. The hand to hand training that we recieved was minimal, I don't remember if it was 6 hours or a couple of days. Alot of the guys did take training on their own but most of the training that we recieved involved weapons. In spec ops, at least the areas that I worked in, the main idea was not to be seen. You operate in very small teams and its best to get in and out and let the bad guys figure out what happened later. I was NOT SF, but did deploy many times with SF if they requested a psyop team, so I can't say what their training involved as far as hand to hand.
Pax
Cujo