I know what you meant, but all I could think was, "Since when is the winner the one who got knocked out?"
Sparring to win vs sparring to understand
- Thread starter Thousand Kicks
- Start date
I know what you meant, but all I could think was, "Since when is the winner the one who got knocked out?"
marques
Master Black Belt
We agree there is always some competition. If not, it is a dance.
And somtimes competition should be the main purpose.But if we spar I will not try to win you. I will defend and observe you at first. I will let you 'win' by passivity to know your skills and where you want to go...
After a first assessment I will set my targets according to it. Much better person than me and I will be happy if I can defend myself. Very week person (in relation to me) I will try spinning kicks, footwork with hands on my back... And spend a lot of time showing my weaknesses, in order to have the challenge even against people with little training or skill.
I may have no chance against you. But I will think about that all the time and comeback with an hypothesis. Even if it fails, I am learning with the process. Wining in sparring is learning. Thinking about sparring may also be learning...
Totally agree. I wonder if Kung Fu Wang is like the other instructor at my school who is always telling me to blast him in his face instead of pulling the punch when I see that a my strike is going through uncontested. I wonder if Kung Fu Wang would give me the same opportunity to hit him full strength if we were to spar or if he's like me and prefers that his sparring partner doesn't connect with full force when he's been caught wide open.
What do you use to determine the winner? Is it on a point scale?
Danny T
Senior Master
Now that would depend upon what type of competition you are training for.
We don't keep score we simple fight.
Sounds similar to fighters determine who won by how they felt coming out of the fight.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
I don't compete, so I should be stucked in the exploration phase. And my sparring is pointless.
I understand you as a competitor, or as a competitor's coach, but you seem forgetting the non sports side...
Anyway we agree agree that competitors need more competitive sparring, other people not so much... (never closer to a fight, ideally)
Depends if you ever want to really shake out the cobwebs every now and then.
A propper knock down drag out fight style sparring session will do the same for non competitive martial artists as it does for competitive ones.
Tenacity wins fights as much as technique. Especially in the first few fights where technique is not as big a factor. Now if you were training to stop a potential attacker. That is almost your entire zone. Unless they have a knife. Then you are boned.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Sparring like that is also about loosing. Which you can't do if you never really tried to win.
Recently I have been focusing more on my linear techniques and decided not to use any big circular punches. I was able to do pretty well but I also too got punched in the face with stuff that I normally don't get hit with. I walked away feeling that I did bad that day and it puzzled me as to why I got hit in the face the way I did. Then it occurred to me that I was totally focusing on using different techniques and that I hadn't thrown any big punches.
After that I didn't feel bad about the punches because it's expected when trying to learn how to apply unused / new techniques. For a while I felt like I lost the sparring matches but also like I lost my fighting ability. The good news is that I didn't lose my skills, but the bad news is that now I've gotten to the point with my techniques where I need to buy the full face protection head gear, so I can learn these other techniques without getting a fat lip every 2 weeks.
You don't need to throw 100% powerful punch on your opponent's face. You can throw 100% powerful punch on his shoulder instead. The shoulder and face are the same distance from your reach. I like to use my opponent's shoulders as my punching bag. I also don't mind my opponent to use my shoulders as his punching bag. If you can knock your opponent down by using a 45 degree downward hay-maker on the side of his shoulder, it may prove your knock down power but it won't hurt him that much.
Last edited:
Danny T
Senior Master
I'm discussing sparring and fight training in prep for a real competition where one fights to ko or submit the opponent (even if it goes the full time and rounds for the contest).
ok. Just making sure you didn't have some kind of secret face conditioning technique that I didn't know about. lol
That distance is only the same if the opponent has not bladed his body at all. If he's standing at 45 degrees, his front shoulder is inches closer (on both vertical and horizontal planes) than his head.
I'll take the submit road, that way I can tap out lol
If you
- can't defend your shoulder, you can't defend your head.
- can hurt your opponent's shoulder, you can hurt your opponent's head.
The bottom line is, you
- will feel good if your fist can hit on solid object.
- won't feel good if your fist always hit on the thin air.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
I protect my head with my shoulder. And generally face punch. I have done sparring with the shoulder as a target. But i tend to put it in the way of a punch rather than protect it. So it messes me up a bit.
But i also like puzzles so it is an interesting mechanic to fight with.
It's always a challenge to move from light contact into full contact. I once used the Kendo equipment. Since it doesn't hurt when your opponent punches on your chest, you don't worry about blocking. That's not good either.
My point is that it's a useful substitute, but it's not actually the same distance. Yes, if you can't hit his shoulder, you probably can't hit his head. However, being able to hit his shoulder does not mean you could have hit his head. The shoulder is an easier target in many situations. It does give you the advantage of being able to hit fairly hard without worrying about head injury, so, again, it's a useful substitute for some good reasons.
Oh, and I'll also argue the shoulder is much harder to defend from certain angles, so getting hit in the shoulder doesn't mean you weren't defending your head.
