sparring ruleset question

[ralphmcpherson]

A friend and I were discussing the rulesets for kyokushin karate and tkd the other day. All I know of kyokushin is what I have seen on youtube (not a very reliable resource) and I was wondering what the differences are from a ruleset perspective between kyokushin karate sparring and wtf(olympic) tkd sparring. I know olympic style tkd sparring gets bagged out a lot but to the naked eye the rules seem similar, except it appears leg kicks may be legal in kyokushin. Can anybody explain the difference or better still is there anybody who has sparred by both rulesets and can explain the differences in the rules and the aproach to sparring in each. Thank you in advance.

 

[ATC]

No hogus for one. So punching the body really counts for something. Many matches end with repetitive body blows. Oh and no head gear as well. There may be some at the lower levels but many of the contest I have seen have none.

Both seem to favor the axe and back spin kick. They do look similar yet different to my eyes.

 

[dancingalone]

Can anybody explain the difference or better still is there anybody who has sparred by both rulesets and can explain the differences in the rules and the aproach to sparring in each. Thank you in advance.

It really depends on the exact Kyokushun variation you are talking about. Generally, knockdown tournament rules permit leg kicks which I believe is banned in WTF TKD sparring.

Ashihara karate (and it's close relation Enshin) tournaments let you grab and pull since throws are a scoring technique, and as a result they look nothing at all like WTF competition. Both are from the Kyokushin family of styles.

 

[ATC]

It really depends on the exact Kyokushun variation you are talking about. Generally, knockdown tournament rules permit leg kicks which I believe is banned in WTF TKD sparring.

Ashihara karate (and it's close relation Enshin) tournaments let you grab and pull since throws are a scoring technique, and as a result they look nothing at all like WTF competition. Both are from the Kyokushin family of styles.

Then there is a form of TKD that also allows for throws as well. I should say another Korean MA called Moo Doo or Moo Do. It has all the WTF TKD kicking but with sweeps and throws as well. After seeing this sport I would love to try it out, even with my bad back.

 

[ATC]

Here is a demo of Han Moo do.
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[dancingalone]

Then there is a form of TKD that also allows for throws as well. I should say another Korean MA called Moo Doo or Moo Do. It has all the WTF TKD kicking but with sweeps and throws as well. After seeing this sport I would love to try it out, even with my bad back.

Interesting. The Hanmudo I am familiar with is the hapkido variant headed by Dr. He Young Kimm and I don't think this is the same thing at all. Looks like fun though.

This sparring looks alot like the type of sparring I teach myself, although I hope to instill more karate principles in the entry and take down aspects.

 

[ATC]

Interesting. The Hanmudo I am familiar with is the hapkido variant headed by Dr. He Young Kimm and I don't think this is the same thing at all. Looks like fun though.

This sparring looks alot like the type of sparring I teach myself, although I hope to instill more karate principles in the entry and take down aspects.

There is a strong influence of Hapkido in it. I think the sport does not use it but the SD does. We may be thinking of the same art. I think this is what TKD is suppose to be. This is the stuff we learn in our Black Belt classes also.

I may start a new thread in the TKD section to see what others think.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Then there is a form of TKD that also allows for throws as well. I should say another Korean MA called Moo Doo or Moo Do. It has all the WTF TKD kicking but with sweeps and throws as well. After seeing this sport I would love to try it out, even with my bad back.

Hanmudo 한무도 = Korean Martial Way, and it is actually related more to hapkido than taekwondo, so calling it a form of TKD would be inaccurate. It was originally called Yukwonsul, later Hanyukwonsul, and was founded by He Young Kimm in (I think) 1989 or 1990. GM Suh In Hyuk apparently put forth the name Hanmudo.

I am not sure what their sparring rules are.

Kyokushin allows kicks to the outer legs, the body, and the head and punches to the body. They wear no hogu. Here's a clip from 1979 with Dolph Lundgren:

Daniel

 

[ATC]

Hanmudo 한무도 = Korean Martial Way, and it is actually related more to hapkido than taekwondo, so calling it a form of TKD would be inaccurate. It was originally called Yukwonsul, later Hanyukwonsul, and was founded by He Young Kimm in (I think) 1989 or 1990. GM Suh In Hyuk apparently put forth the name Hanmudo.

I am not sure what their sparring rules are.

Kyokushin allows kicks to the outer legs, the body, and the head and punches to the body. They wear no hogu. Here's a clip from 1979 with Dolph Lundgren:

Daniel

Dolph Lundgren?!? No way...You have to use Andy Hug as the example clip. He was the best Kyokushin fighter of his time. May he R.I.P.
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As for the HMD being closer to Hapkido, I don't know. I think it is split rather well between the two arts. Hapkido artist kick quite well but not as well as TKD artist. The HMD artist seem to kick a littel better and use kicking quite a bit more than the Hapkido artist do but not as well or as often as the TKD artist.

I have started thead on this in the Hapkido area as to not side track this thread.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

As for the HMD being closer to Hapkido, I don't know. I think it is split rather well between the two arts. Hapkido artist kick quite well but not as well as TKD artist. The HMD artist seem to kick a littel better and use kicking quite a bit more than the Hapkido artist do but not as well or as often as the TKD artist.

How much and how well HKD kicks are varries widely from school to school. Kicking, particularly high kicking, is much more consistently prevalant in taekwondo. Some hkd schools focus more on kicks than others do, and most probably focus more on low kicks than taekwondo. I know that the IHF has tournaments and sparring with hogu, but most HKD does not have a competitive element.

As far as Kyokushin and TKD sparring go, there are similarities and differences. Lack of hogu and leg kicks are the most obvious differences. High kicks to the head and body and punches only to the body are similar. Regardless of the target area, the lack of hogu is the biggest difference. Take hogu off of two taekwondoists and you'd have a very different game.

Daniel