Sparring Judges

[Laborn]

Lol since karatekid started a forms judge, figured i'd start a sparring. Howcome they always seem to cheat? at states championships i ran/knocked the guy off the matts 6 times, on tape, and half way through the fight they stopped it, cause they weren't scoring me any pts. Then they erased my 4 pts, and gave him 2 more, so he won, what's with that lol. I've been to 5 tournaments, and 4 the sparring judges cheated.

I dont think we should score on points anyway, seems they cant do it right. I've seen fights where black belts get creamed, i mean creamed, but somehow they win, yet i've seen bbs cream someone else, yet they lose,*cream meaning knocking them down every few seconds, stopping the fight cause he was bleeding* Howcome they cheat so bad? I'ts not fair lol.

Laborn.

 

[Gemini]

You said it's on tape. Show it. We'll judge it and let you know.

It's no secret that current judging methods for sparring are suspect, to say the least. That's why they're always looking for ways to improve it. Pretty much the same with any other sport that the winner is determined by judges. Boxing, figute skating, etc. All subjective.

I'll tell you the same thing I tell the competitors I coach. Focus on doing your best and the experience of it. First and formost, enjoy yourself. You know what you did right and what you did wrong. Take that with you and work on your weaknesses. The last thing you should worry about is the scoring. Competition is sport. Don't get all caught up in the score. Your performance and desire to improve is all that matters. Getting caught up in the scoring will only aggrevate you.

 

[terryl965]

Have to agree with Gemini on this first and foremost have fun, does it mater if you win or lose in a tournament or is the training important, I believe for you it is the training go with that and the rest will be as is.
Terry

 

[Laborn]

Heh you guys do make alot of sense I know scores matter little. I train alot, and hard, i train for MYSELF, not a medal not scores not for anyone else. But it still stinks when you compete and they cheat you out of what you deserved lol, the other fighter was a good fighter, but i clearly was a better fighter.

Laborn.

 

[karatekid1975]

Laborn, that is one reason I don't spar in tournies. I seen it happen too many times. I seen it in this last tourny. Our guy was doing really well, but the other guy was fighting "dirty." He sould have been disqualified, but won. There is numerous other "cheats" that I have seen.

When I judge the kiddies, I try to be as fair as possible. If I see a clean shot, I score it. If I don't, then no one gets a score.

 

[Shu2jack]

As a judge, I don't wake up the morning of a tournament, look myself in the mirror, and say to myself "I am looking forward to cheating someone and ruining their day!".

While I have no doubt that there are some judges who cheat, I don't think cheating judges are the majority. I think the biggest reason for problems is that a judge is ill-trained or simply made a mistake. Another thing to consider, judges have different angles and are in different positions to see things than what spectators do. They also have different view points on things. There are times when spectators or competitors have brought up concerns or disagreements and I simply disagree with them. From my point of view and from my experience myself and the other judges made the correct call.

One more point, tournaments are just that- tournaments. They have rules. You can knock someone out of the ring 100 times and run them out 100 more times, but if your strikes are not scoring to a valid target area that the judges can see and your opponent is....he wins. Sure you look minty fresh and he looks like he got hit by a bus. Rules are rules in a tournament.

I don't know what happened in your situation Laborn, I was confused by your story, but I think anyone here who is a judge of ANY competition can tell you how difficult it can be....and probably tell you about the mistakes they have made while judging.

 

[Adept]

Simply don't compete in events where they use such a scoring system.

Enter into a kickboxing or MMA tournament instead. You get a more proffesional, more challenging experience all round.

 

[karatekid1975]

Shu2jack, you do have a good point. It's hard to see sometimes. Like if I'm judging in one corner and the ref stands directly in front of me so I can't see the competitors (has happened). I couldn't score anyone at that point. Or if one of the competitors turns their back towards me, also blocking my view of the other competitor, again I didn't score anyone at that moment. So, yes, it is hard being a judge sometimes (I perfer scoring forms LOL).

 

[IcemanSK]

I've always struggled w/ judging point tourneys. I once judged 2 yellow belts. They were kickin' the heck out of each other's legs but were'nt flexible enough to score w/ a kick. Funny thing, they were frustrated at us judges for not scoring their "points".

I like judging full contact rules kickboxing better. 10 point must system to the winner of the round is much easier.

 

[Fluffy]

One of the issues with point sparring is the judges can't see everything, you score - you know it - your partner knows it - the judges just didn't see it. I think in most casses (almost all) if a point was scored and none is awarded, it's just that. I know, only because I'm a touney judge on a monthly bassis, and I've missed a few.

-Fluff

 

[IcemanSK]

One of the issues with point sparring is the judges can't see everything, you score - you know it - your partner knows it - the judges just didn't see it. I think in most casses (almost all) if a point was scored and none is awarded, it's just that. I know, only because I'm a touney judge on a monthly bassis, and I've missed a few.

-Fluff

We, as judges, all miss a few. And a smart fighter can make it appear as if he scored &/or cover a point scored on them, also. It ain't a perfect system, but its the one we got.

 

[terryl965]

I stop judgeing for the reason given to many juges score differently from organization. There is no set standerd for anybody.
Terry

 

[Fluffy]

A smart competitor knows his angles............

 

[terryl965]

No-matter what angle a blind judge is a blind judge.
Terry

 

[FearlessFreep]

The sparring tournaments I've seen use at least three and usually four corner judges plus the center referree. So a blind judge may be a blind judge but there are several others and it takes collusion by several judges to throw a match with cheating (especially needing two or three 'votes' to score)

But Adept, I dislike the MMA style scoring much worse because there is no real criteria other than judgement over the whole round and I've seen some rather interesting judgements that way. At least with a point based system (like in baseball or football for example where you get a point for a certain accomplishment) there is a definitive way of scoring and the only variable is the judges interpretation of whether the event happened or not. (Like 'safe or out' or 'out of bounds or inbounds' in the other mentioned sports)

 

[FearlessFreep]

And I did once hear a few BBs talking about how to body position and setup attacks in order to let the judges see your strikes on the opponent well but to try to mask your own (esp with three corner judges)

 

[Adept]

I like judging full contact rules kickboxing better. 10 point must system to the winner of the round is much easier.

Definately. It's a much better system.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Bleh....I usually like your opinions but this is one I've never agreed with you on : )

 

[Fluffy]

No-matter what angle a blind judge is a blind judge.
Terry

In that case he should be removed, but that's up to whoever is in charge...not the competitors or the parents (God help them is they approach me)

-Fluff

 

[Shu2jack]

A question to ask is, "Is the judge "blind", or does he have different expectations of what is expected?"

When I am center judging a ring, I will gather my corner judges and tell them how I am going to conduct scoring. The level of contact to score a point and such. (I do ATA point sparring). After the judges and I are on the same page, I gather all competitors in the middle of the ring and tell them out loud (so both they and all spectator/parents can hear) what I expect out of them in order to score points, etc. Normally, a purple belt is supposed to come with in 3 inches or more to score a point if the other person doesn't block or evade. I tell everyone that while we will score points from 3 inches out if it is an obvious point, they shouldn't count on it and they need to make light contact if they want the score. This way no one is left wondering why they are not getting points and the parents understand what is going on.

Of course, there are always some people who should not be judging-period.