Soke Sandai Mayoral & The Shizenki Ryu Bujutsu

[Akashiro Tamaya]

I think people are just worried that we will have another Bruce Calkins debate here that is all.

Them lets make it a best effort not to make this a Calkins thread. For all I know is that this arts history is fascinating as it linked all the way to Kosuko Matsumora, for all I know this art could hold valuable informations that could perhaps be added or debunk myths in Okinawan martial arts.

 

[chinto01]

Mr.Tamaya I see that you are also a studnet of Shorin ryu. May I ask where you study and what rank? Also who your instructor is?

Respects

Rob

 

[KenpoTess]

Mod Note

Thread moved to 'The Great Debate'.

The thread will be monitored closely.

~Tess
-MT S. Mod

 

[Akashiro Tamaya]

Mr.Tamaya I see that you are also a studnet of Shorin ryu. May I ask where you study and what rank? Also who your instructor is?

Respects

Rob

Sure, Rob Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu 9th Kyu, Total 6 months training to date, I spent most my time working at the law firm. I prefer to leave my instructor out of it if you don't mind, after all he is not making any claim on the internet.

 

[chinto01]

Thanks for the reply. I understand you would like to leave your instructor out of it. That was not my intent to drag people into anything. I was just curious as to where you are receiving your training from.
Respects

Rob

 

[FearlessFreep]

My concern for going in this direction is that if members of this board start sending out messages to schools/instructors that the question to try to get them to come here as a place of debate, that the board itself will get a reputation of spending time trying to tear people down and I don't think that's really the intent of the owners of the board. Either to do that or to have that reputation.

I think there is a difference between sending a letter to someone and saying on the board "Hey, I think this guys a fruitcake, this is what I sent him, I'll let you know what he says" and to send someone messages inviting someone to this board with phrases like "the people of this forum would be interested in...", or "we'd like to know..." or "can you explain to us...". One is a personal matter and personal perogative, the other tries to get the forum involved in a way I think shouldn't be done without at least the oversite or approval of the owners/mods and maybe the agreement of other board members.

I also think there is a big difference between posting to this board "hey, I ran into this guy in my town selling black belts at a bookstore, watch out for him" and to go looking for someone on the internet and decide "hmm...I think I found a fraud" and to start challenging his claims and his background. Everyone is free to do what they want in their own place, of course. I think the first is within the interest or intent of this message forum, the second is not, as far as I can discern

 

[Tgace]

I also think there is a big difference between posting to this board "hey, I ran into this guy in my town selling black belts at a bookstore, watch out for him" and to go looking for someone on the internet and decide "hmm...I think I found a fraud" and to start challenging his claims and his background. Everyone is free to do what they want in their own place, of course. I think the first is within the interest or intent of this message forum, the second is not, as far as I can discern

Hmmm...well said.

 

[Don Roley]

My concern for going in this direction is that if members of this board start sending out messages to schools/instructors that the question to try to get them to come here as a place of debate, that the board itself will get a reputation of spending time trying to tear people down and I don't think that's really the intent of the owners of the board. Either to do that or to have that reputation.

I think there is a difference between sending a letter to someone and saying on the board "Hey, I think this guys a fruitcake, this is what I sent him, I'll let you know what he says" and to send someone messages inviting someone to this board with phrases like "the people of this forum would be interested in...", or "we'd like to know..." or "can you explain to us...". One is a personal matter and personal perogative, the other tries to get the forum involved in a way I think shouldn't be done without at least the oversite or approval of the owners/mods and maybe the agreement of other board members.

I also think there is a big difference between posting to this board "hey, I ran into this guy in my town selling black belts at a bookstore, watch out for him" and to go looking for someone on the internet and decide "hmm...I think I found a fraud" and to start challenging his claims and his background. Everyone is free to do what they want in their own place, of course. I think the first is within the interest or intent of this message forum, the second is not, as far as I can discern

Very well said.

I think some people should review the policy on fraud busting.

It is one thing to see a claim being made here and asking for proof. It is another to go out of your way to tear someone down.

Am I to understand the that the subject of this thread was invited to register here at martialtalk by the starter of this thread?

 

[evenflow1121]

Sure, Rob Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu 9th Kyu, Total 6 months training to date, I spent most my time working at the law firm. I prefer to leave my instructor out of it if you don't mind, after all he is not making any claim on the internet.

Thats awesome, I remember that name Matsubayashi from an instructor I ran into. Have you heard of Luis Fernandez, it seems I am going to be in the S. Fla. area, living down here that is for a while. I cant seem to find a good EPAK school down here, but I ran into his Shorin Ryu school the other day, seemed like a nice guy.

 

[Franc0]

Sure, Rob Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu 9th Kyu, Total 6 months training to date, I spent most my time working at the law firm. I prefer to leave my instructor out of it if you don't mind, after all he is not making any claim on the internet.

No offense Akashiro, but with only 6 months of training to date, don't you think you should spend more time advancing in your training, and less time worrying about others? Though your intentions could be honest inquiries for your edification of the MA's, you could do these privately through e-mails. Instead your doing it on a public forum, which could tend to make it look as though your attempting to "fraud bust" which could also put MartialTalk in a negative light, as others seemingly are beginning to feel. Like Don said kinda, don't go out of your way on this one.

Franco

 

[Andrew Green]

So why do you expect these people to answer everything you ask about there lineage when you won't even name your instructor?

 

[Bester]

So, someone invited the pride and joy of the Eagle Federation to come here, and answer questions.

Why? Most of those people are jokes, jackasses and worse.

Why in the name of Dog would you want that trash here? Are you insane, mad, or out to destroy this forum?

1 "Legend in their own Mind" was more than enough. Now, we must deal with an invasion. Hundreds of posts about how ninjas walked through walls, secret techniques taught by spirits, using telepathy to bend swords and stop bullets. Oh, and more imaginary teachers than you'll find in the whole Harry Potter series.

If anyone is inviting these morons here in order to "expose" them, I think you are an absolute and utter ***. It is one thing if they wander in. It's another thing to invite them in. How many threads are now going to be locked, tossed and deleted? How many of our current members are now looking at leaving because the ******** is going to be so thick you'll need stilts?

Stupid move. Very stupid.

 

[Don Roley]

Why in the name of Dog would you want that trash here? Are you insane, mad, or out to destroy this forum?

Good post and good question, one that I would like an answer to.

And I do not want my intelligence insulted with an answer of how someone thought we would love to hear from these people. That dog don't hunt and I will personally be offended if someone treats me like I am stupid enough to believe it.

After all the problems and vitrol we have seen over Bruce, someone would either be really eager to bust frauds which is clearly against the rules of martialtalk or out to drive people away from us and reduce membership.

If someone comes on and makes claims, then other people are free to not believe them unless proof is presented and to state that they do not believe them. This is the problem Bruce has in that he actually tried to force people to treat him like he was telling the truth with nothing to back up what he said.

But we do not want trouble here. We do not want people going out and bringing in trouble so that they can get their jollies. We want logical, freindly discussion here whenever we can and bringing in trouble like this is not in keeping with that goal.

As I said, I want an honest answer to why this happened.

 

[Tripitaka of AA]

I "think" that the person named in the thread title came to the attention of the poster while reading up on Bruce. It seemed like an interesting story and the curiosity factor almost made me want to persue it myself. I didn't bother, because I'm rather lazy.

I take the points about the forum aims and raison d'etre not being geared exclusively toward Fraud Busting. Bruce rode into town on his high horse claiming to be the rootin'ist tootin'ist varmint this side of the Pecos, Chi-balls and spinning chopsticks for Ninja breakfast. The local Townsfolk used logic, discussion and quite a lot of patience to draw his story into the light where it promptly disintegrated faster than Christopher Lee in a Hammer Horror sunrise.

No, we don't need to go out looking for these types. Particularly not if the Forum Owners have expressed a desire to avoid it.

There are other forums that seem to take a little more pleasure from such things.... with forums titled "baffling budo" for questionables, and "bad budo" for confirmed blots on the landscape. Perhaps they would like to meet Soke Mayoral....

 

[Don Roley]

Thank you David. You sum it up quite well.

If someone comes in here making claims, people have the right to question them. But to invite someone here in the hopes that they will be humiliated is not the same thing.

Some people seem to have found the humilation of Bruce fun. More were irritated over the amount of time and rancor that went on. To encourage more of that is not in the best interest of martialtalk and I would like an answer from the starter of this thread since I know he was on line since I asked last.

 

[chinto01]

In looking back at the beginning of this thread this is exactly how the Bruce Calkins affair started and look how it ended. I do not even believe Mr.Calkins does not post in ay forums anymore. That being said I agree that people should not be contacting individuals to justify themselves to this site. Who are we to judge who is a fake or not. I am sure we all could cast stones at eachothers training if we wanted to. I do not want people to think that I am "soft" or anything like that but I came from a school that was very closed minded and if you went outside the box your were either asked to leave or you were pushed aside and forgoten about. I believe that everyone brings something to the table no matter where they train!

In the Spirit of Bushido!

Rob

 

[Akashiro Tamaya]

My concern for going in this direction is that if members of this board start sending out messages to schools/instructors that the question to try to get them to come here as a place of debate, that the board itself will get a reputation of spending time trying to tear people down and I don't think that's really the intent of the owners of the board. Either to do that or to have that reputation.

I think there is a difference between sending a letter to someone and saying on the board "Hey, I think this guys a fruitcake, this is what I sent him, I'll let you know what he says" and to send someone messages inviting someone to this board with phrases like "the people of this forum would be interested in...", or "we'd like to know..." or "can you explain to us...". One is a personal matter and personal perogative, the other tries to get the forum involved in a way I think shouldn't be done without at least the oversite or approval of the owners/mods and maybe the agreement of other board members.

I also think there is a big difference between posting to this board "hey, I ran into this guy in my town selling black belts at a bookstore, watch out for him" and to go looking for someone on the internet and decide "hmm...I think I found a fraud" and to start challenging his claims and his background. Everyone is free to do what they want in their own place, of course. I think the first is within the interest or intent of this message forum, the second is not, as far as I can discern

Good Point Jay, I will take this consideration in the future !

 

[Akashiro Tamaya]

So why do you expect these people to answer everything you ask about there lineage when you won't even name your instructor?

Well, Andrew, You're right I should not expect people answer. As per my instructor , he has no claim nor involvement as I am doing this on my on time ! Again, I may have become a hypocrite, Thanks for pointing it out !

 

[Akashiro Tamaya]

Why in the name of Dog would you want that trash here? Are you insane, mad, or out to destroy this forum?

If anyone is inviting these morons here in order to "expose" them, I think you are an absolute and utter ***. It is one thing if they wander in. It's another thing to invite them in. How many threads are now going to be locked, tossed and deleted? How many of our current members are now looking at leaving because the ******** is going to be so thick you'll need stilts?

Stupid move. Very stupid.

Agreed !

 

[Akashiro Tamaya]

No offense Akashiro, but with only 6 months of training to date, don't you think you should spend more time advancing in your training, and less time worrying about others? Though your intentions could be honest inquiries for your edification of the MA's, you could do these privately through e-mails. Instead your doing it on a public forum, which could tend to make it look as though your attempting to "fraud bust" which could also put MartialTalk in a negative light, as others seemingly are beginning to feel. Like Don said kinda, don't go out of your way on this one.

Franco

No offense taken at all, in any I should be the one apologising for my bahaviour !