Snap Kicks VS Thrusting Kicks

[chinto]

ok folks, I am a shorin practitioner of Okinawan style, and the kata, ( classical kata handed down for a century and more ) teach only two kicks! the Front Snap Kick in all its variants and the Crescent Kick. the traditional targets for kicks are all low!! it is and was never taught to kick to the chest on Okinawa! When its for your LIFE, you do not risk getting a foot caught or similar, besides which the Okinawan styles teach a close in fight.
My understanding is that the Okinawan ( hogan) name for a front snap kick is pretty much translated as "foot punch." and you should remember that they were training with the fact that they may be unarmed against a weapon. That mandates you get in close and end it quickly and decisively, or you will more then likely NOT SURVIVE! I can destroy and ankle or knee with a good hard front snap kick just as i can attack femoral arteries and groin and pelvic synthesis and other targets with it.

 

[K-man]

ok folks, I am a shorin practitioner of Okinawan style, and the kata, ( classical kata handed down for a century and more ) teach only two kicks! the Front Snap Kick in all its variants and the Crescent Kick.

Not kansetsu geri, or knee joint kick?

 

[Gnarlie]

In KKW TKD these kick are not named separately as far as I am aware, but it's certainly something that sparring and SD forces you to think about.

I would always put hip thrust into a kick if possible, be it turning or forwards motion. The only exceptions to this are when the kick is extremely opportunistic and there is no time to engage the hip.

Spontaneous decisions (drilled in) when launching a kick can be based on a number instantaneously occurring factors, for example:

Distance from the target - Think about 4 concentric circles around you. The outer circle is impact kicking range - where your foot ends up when you throw a kick. The next circle in is about 6 inches smaller radius, and is thrust distance. 6 inches closer and it's punching time, 12 more then knees and elbows before the clinch. A large distance to the target lends itself better to an impact, rather than a deeper biting thrust, unless a step is taken to shorten the distance. In my experience thrusts work better when the opponent is quite far inside impact kicking range. In contrast to that point, when the opponent is on the outer kicking range circle, a hip thrust can give an extra bit of reach to facilitate an impact slightly outside of normal range.

Angle to the target - if the target is available at an angle perpendicular to that of your kick's trajectory, then a deep biting thrust kick is likely to have more effect than it would otherwise have. That said, thrusting motions don't tend to slide off non-perpendicular targets in the same way that impacts glance off - but it's easier to adjust the angle of a snappy impact to a non-perpendicular target than it is a thrust.

Nature of the target - Hard or soft? Imagine kicking someone with a big beer belly. From experience on the mean streets of GB after closing time, I can tell you that the energy of shallow, snappy impacts is absorbed with consummate ease in a tsunami wave of flab, and that a thrust is required to 'dig in' and inflict some pain. On the other hand, you might have more success with impact against someone's thick hard skull or rib cage than you would with a thrusting technique.

Whether the kick is launched from a step - a snapping kick launched from a step or while the opponent is stepping forward can effectively be 'stiff legged' before the impact, using the leg as a battering ram and giving it the same feel as a thrust kick against someone with a big soft belly.

I view thrust vs impact as the same kick, with 2 different applications based on the spontaneous relative positions and actions of 2 opponents (or one person and a kick pad), rather than something to attach two names to when learning kicks in isolation away from an opponent.

Just some thoughts, I'm not saying they are right, just my experiences.

 

[Zero]

Not kansetsu geri, or knee joint kick?

Chinto, I am sure that is the case but am also surprised only two kick styles? A good friend of mine back in Uni did Shorin-ryu Shidokan and when we practiced, did kata or sparred for fun he had various kicks, such as yoko geri.

 

[Noah_Legel]

I suspect that Chinto is referring to the kicks that are found in the traditional kata of Shorin-Ryu. The front kick is certainly the most prevalent, and there is an occasional crescent kick, as he mentioned. That said, I would say it depends on which kata you have in your system, because we also have back kicks in our Kusanku kata, and shovel kicks in Naihanchi--I will grant that a crescent kick and a shovel kick could be classified in the same category, and back kicks are not necessarily kicks in the literal sense. I have also seen some traditional kata from another Shuri-Te branch (Sakugawa->Tachimura->Kishimoto lineage) that includes side kicks, so it could be argued that they would also be present in other styles.

 

[Zero]

N-A-R, thanks! You guys have pinan (ichi-dan - go-dan), I thought you clearly had (depending on style) or could interpret sweep, kensetsu and yoko?

 

[Noah_Legel]

N-A-R, thanks! You guys have pinan (ichi-dan - go-dan), I thought you clearly had (depending on style) or could interpret sweep, kensetsu and yoko?

Glad to help! None of our kata have yoko-geri in them, including the Pinan kata--we have mae-geri where yoko-geri is in other styles. Kansetsu-geri is just a kick to a joint, which we do plenty of with our front kick, shovel kick, and crescent kick. We certainly do use yoko-geri to various targets, including joints, but it isn't found in our kata.

 

[Kframe]

I was reading Dan Djurivics blog, and there was a article specifically about this very topic. In it he feels that the snap kick is superior to the thrust kick. He feels that the snap kick does more damage, while the thrust kick(teep) was more of a pushing motion that did little damage. I have yet to get kicked in such a fashion with real force, so I cant really tell which hurts more..

 

[Dirty Dog]

I was reading Dan Djurivics blog, and there was a article specifically about this very topic. In it he feels that the snap kick is superior to the thrust kick. He feels that the snap kick does more damage, while the thrust kick(teep) was more of a pushing motion that did little damage. I have yet to get kicked in such a fashion with real force, so I cant really tell which hurts more..

I think articles like this should include the qualifier "for me", because although the writer may personally find the snap kick to have more impact, these things will vary from one practitioner to another.

 

[Zero]

I was reading Dan Djurivics blog, and there was a article specifically about this very topic. In it he feels that the snap kick is superior to the thrust kick. He feels that the snap kick does more damage, while the thrust kick(teep) was more of a pushing motion that did little damage. I have yet to get kicked in such a fashion with real force, so I cant really tell which hurts more..

Agreeing with Dirty Dog's general comment on that, there may be something in what that blog was on about but remember a simple thrust kick into the knee or just above the knee on a slight downwards angle can be a real joint destroyer and fight ender depending on the opponent's/aggressor's leg position. I have not caused more than what I would call superficial damage with thrust kicks in tournament, aiming them mainly at abdomen level, but have knocked people over and come close to putting guys through the ropes when timing it right. This can have a great set-up or shock factor on the opponent. If I was seeking to do serious rib area damage or to arms/thighs (in ring) I would be favouring round house with shin as striking surface. Outside of ring with boots etc it is another story, steel caps = nice replacement for shin : )

 

[Aiki Lee]

Thrust kicks knock a person away from you, snap kicks make them collapse on the spot. The decision to use either one depends on what you want the result to be.

 

[chinto]

Not kansetsu geri, or knee joint kick?

the shin or knee kick is executed more as a snap kick/thrust kick hybread in many ways.. and it is often in kata one of the more hidden techs.. niehachi kata has some.. etc.

 

[chinto]

Chinto, I am sure that is the case but am also surprised only two kick styles? A good friend of mine back in Uni did Shorin-ryu Shidokan and when we practiced, did kata or sparred for fun he had various kicks, such as yoko geri.

I am talking about the kicks in the classical kata. yes we learn the side thrust and other kicks too. my point was the old masters only included basically the front snap and crescent and have hidden in several kata the shin/knee kick. I think they were trying to teach us something in that way.

 

[RTKDCMB]

What about kicks like the crescent kick or the spinning heel kick that don't fit into either category.