Situational awarness

[drop bear]

See this is the problem with debating with you, we had already talked about subconscious and conscious, we moved on to sublty, you never gained ground in sublty, so you went back to a point where you thought you was strong, yes you are right about lions and the things that stand out, but with a higher level of skill in all disciplines, comes subtle differences, with SA as you increase the skill, you notice more and more subtle things, and with your ma training, posture, weapons, patterns that are familiar, stand out, things that are not obvious to the untrained eye, and no I do not have a scientific paper on this, I know because I know, and because of experience.

Ok like dowsing there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that situational awareness works.

But when you subject dowsing to a scientific test is is no more successful than luck.

Is there anything that suggests a method of situational awareness works at all?

Or does the validity of situational awareness exist in the same place that supports the validity of psychic powers?

 

[drop bear]

Sorry I am just looking things up and coming up with cool ideas.

Here is the Barnum effect.

Now situational awareness could very easily fall in to this category. I was trained in watching people and one day I was at the shops and spotted a thief.

I don't know... I saw the guy or something and then later saw the police grabbed him and so ahaha I can identify dodgy guys before they dodge.

Now I don't know how many thieves I missed. I don't know how many dodgy guys had just done nothing wrong.

But I have created this belief that I now have a skill.

Unfortunately there is no guarantee that I am not just creating this in my head, like my lucky underwear that helps me win at sport.

I don't think until such a skill is truly scientifically tested that it can really be considered a skill.

 

[drop bear]

The ninja situational test.

See I think this is bollocks Mabye Tony has a better idea?

 

[Gweilo]

The ninja situational test.

See I think this is bollocks Mabye Tony has a better idea?

If you want the current view of science on sa then heres a link, but be warned its not a 10 minute read.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...on_Awareness_in_individuals_teams_and_systems

 

[Deleted member 39746]

A guard doesn't work like the fence is supposed to though. You don't stand in range with your guard up waiting for something to happen.

Your guard goes up. You move in to range, do something fighty then move back out of range so you have a hope in hell of anticipation their attack.

Your guard just stops a percentage of incoming attacks.

The fence is ironically exactly how you don't fight successfully.

Going back to that, i used fence and guard interchanably. But the fence would be a form of guard.


But in said sitaution i was citing, you would have fence up and stay out of range, its only put up so you have your hands in a position to respond to a attack, instead of keeping them down by your sides, and generally in a passive posture that wont by itself instigate anything. Unlike if you went into a tradtional stance.

So your SA would only really be whats around you, where you are going and if they are reaching for anything, as if they charge you and they keep distance you should be able to react in time if you were conciously paying attention to them. Im also not being specfic for a armed or unarmed status.


Just needed to clarify that.

edit: and i think i wrote this earlier but if not, i will write it now for clarity. the fence isnt meant to be a fighting guard. Its meant to be a middle ground between one and your hands being in a passive posture rather than active.

 

[dvcochran]

with SA as you increase the skill, you notice more and more subtle things,

I agree with your reply to post #58. While not well said, I agree with @jobo 's argument, in part. The biggest reason SA gets a bad rap
is because of the way it has often been presented. Two hour classes or even week long programs (which I have led in the past) are at best an introduction to SA. Too often it is presented as teaching SA. It is more about repeated exposure to situations/scenarios where SA is used. This comes in the form of a lifetime of experience or repeated training. Teaching SA as a psychology can border on a form of paranoia and can become counterproductive.
That said, I do not want anyone in my circle walking around feeling they consciously have to be thinking about SA (I think this is what @jobo is trying to say, sort of). This is the 'subconscious' component he is talking about.
Calling it subconscious is valid I suppose but I think pattern recognition is more accurate. Pattern recognition will only come from repeated exposure to the pattern, and more importantly, subtle differences in the pattern. In short, this means drilling the scenario, technique, counter, attack, etc... until it is set in memory.
At the end of the day, SA training has very little difference from most any other MA training. Of course, there is no way a person can specifically train for every 'what if' scenario put we can train in generalities that are comprehensive enough to work for, or at least help, in most all situations.

 

[dvcochran]

Ok like dowsing there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that situational awareness works.

But when you subject dowsing to a scientific test is is no more successful than luck.

Is there anything that suggests a method of situational awareness works at all?

Or does the validity of situational awareness exist in the same place that supports the validity of psychic powers?

Yes, I feel there has been more than enough explanations and examples of How people prevented or got out of a situation to support the argument that SA works.

 

[skribs]

Two hour classes or even week long programs (which I have led in the past) are at best an introduction to SA. Too often it is presented as teaching SA.

I think this is a problem with martial arts seminars (and videos) in general.

 

[CB Jones]

Now I don't know how many thieves I missed. I don't know how many dodgy guys had just done nothing wrong.

But I have created this belief that I now have a skill.

Unfortunately there is no guarantee that I am not just creating this in my head, like my lucky underwear that helps me win at sport.

I don't think until such a skill is truly scientifically tested that it can really be considered a skill.

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong but I agree its not a skill but more of levels. A level of awareness of what is going on around you and possible situations that could arise. And that level is constantly changing due to numerous things (distractions, fatigue, stress, etc...)

So to me...SA is not spotting clues to know what is coming and being right the majority of time. Its more being aware of whats going on around you and possible situations that may occur or you can create. Which puts you in a better position if the situation arises or avoiding it all together.

Working undercover you have to have a high level of SA and constantly take measures to avoid certain situations. A high level of SA when needed and ability to recognize, avoid and/or create certain situations is a big part of whether or not you can work UC.

I've worked UC for almost 10 years and feel I was pretty good at it and had a high level of SA while doing it...but if you ask my wife she will tell you at the house I don't notice anything...lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So to me...SA is not spotting clues to know what is coming and being right the majority of time. Its more being aware of whats going on around you and possible situations that may occur or you can create. Which puts you in a better position if the situation arises or avoiding it all together.

The ability to understand the surrounding environment that one is in. Recognizing the paths that lead to specific outcomes well enough where you can either manipulate things or flow within an environment in a way that produces a desirable outcome.

Now that I think of it, it probably takes a great deal of self-awareness and acceptance of oneself and the limitations. I'm trying to think back on a lot of bad situations that I got myself in or that I've seen others get themselves in. For me those bad situations were times where I lacked and honest self-awareness or where I ignored something that I knew to be true and based my actions on "what should happen in a perfect or logical world." I would either oversell or undersell my capabilities to myself

Most people probably don't understand how they fit within an environment and it's moving pieces.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not all "fences' are created equal. I have successfully used a fence numerous times both as a police officer and as a private citizen. I do not, however, use a fence as it is usually depicted.

I so love using a fence.

Can you clarify that?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I would say for optimal security you have to contiously look over your shoulder, but im pretty sure doing that 24/7 and never feeling safe would result in long term psychological issues. As i think ahyone properly hunter by any faction usually suffers wth. ie hiding from police, fears a semi poweeful orginsation will ghost you, fears you will be assinated etc.

In other words optimal secuirty doesnt work all the time and only people who have to, or suffer from psychological conditions would contiously look over their shoulder. The former would probbly devolope the latter. I think thats self evident to be honest, some people dont think of the psycholgical ramifications if you have a job that requires you take on a new idenity and basically permnently look over your shoulder as you do it. (be it lawful or un)

Oh as i forgot, people in said situations generally try and carve out a safe area anyway, so if they live somewhere they generlly try to make that as safe as possible. If you cant have that, thats what generally screws people over the most menetally.