silent escape, retreating from the horizon, diving hawk

[Sam]

as far as I can tell, these are for the exact same attack. What would cause you to use one of them over the other two? IS there a difference, which I am not aware of?

These were the ways I learned the techniques:

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Retreating from the Horizon:
[FONT=&quot]This technique is used when someone has your right arm twisted behind your back. Step backward with your left foot and left elbow them in the ribs. Step forward with your left foot, and turn to face your attacker. You will have to straighten out your restrained arm to do this. Snapkick with your rear (right) foot to your attacker’s groin.

[/FONT]Silent Escape:
[FONT=&quot]For a right armbar. Dancer step your left foot over the right as you pull your arm down as hard as you can. Turn into a horse stance, and if their grip is not already broken, pull hand out against thumb, right thumb eye shot.[/FONT]

Diving Hawk:
[FONT=&quot]This technique is for a right armbar. It is the longest technique in the system. Step backward with your left foot and left elbow them in the ribs. Step forward with your left foot, and turn to face your attacker. Take another step back and right chicken kick to their face. Step in with your left foot and with your left arm push their arm down to your thigh. Left elbow them in the temple, left claw out their eyes, left elbow slam into their neck, then left palm their elbow, breaking it. Left flip kick to their groin, cross step out, side kick to their knee.

(these are verbatim from my notes; retreating from the horizon is from orange belt sam point of view; the second two are from green belt sam point of view. its funny to me, how my vocabulary and describing techniques have changed.)
[/FONT]

 

[michaeledward]

I am unfamiliar with these techniques, by these names.

One item that does spring to mind, based on the techniques in my system, is 'Where are the aggressors' hands?'. If he is standing directly behind you, holding your right arm twisted behind your back, where is his left hand? How might the positioning of his left hand change the technique?

If I was to apply the 'right armbar' with my left hand grasping your left arm just above your left elbow, both 'Retreating the Horizon' and 'Diving Hawk' would not be able to be executed. My left hand position would prevent the rear elbow. How would this affect the technique?

I hope this raises a couple of questions. Mike

 

[MJS]

Something that we should be taking into consideration, like Mike Edward stated, is what is the person behind us doing, besides grabbing our right arm? Perhaps in addition to the possibility of the left arm being grabbed, we could also be forced to walk forward. If we're getting pressure from behind, stepping back is only going to turn this into a struggle for who is stronger. Moving forward with the pressure, such as in Silent Escape, allows us the possibility of escape.

Mike

 

[Sam]

Well, I didn't include it in the descriptions, but in all of these, and diving hawk specifically, you can take a couple steps forward to get your balance and relieve pressure - has no one heard of these techniques?

 

[Jim Hanna]

I teach Silent Escape for a running hammerlock. It is the only armlock technique in the Tracy's curriculum that does not start by stepping back and elbowing to the head or solar plexus.

Retreating from the Horizon is now referred to as Passing the Horizon "B". It works well if you prefer to kick with your right foot, or you can not go "past 12:00 to 1:30" because of an obstacle e.g. a wall or car.

Diving Hawk is basically just an extension of Retreating from the Horizon. However, there is alot of torque generated in the escape and it is easy to lose the hand. The chicken kicks can get you back into the action quickly if you do, although the arm break would only be there if you were able to secure the hand again.

Passing the Horizon (A) gives the best angle for a liver kick. If utilized with a wrist lock, it really places the attacker in a bad position.

Locking Arm is the tech to use if you're against the wall or car.

Reverse Hammerlock is for an escort hammerlock.

Stick of Death teaches how to apply an armlock on someone who is standing in front of you. The attacker just happens to also be trying to hit you with an overhead club.

All these techniques have something to offer. Overall, pretty good stuff for all the types of armlocks--and I've applied all these armlocks over the years.

Jim

 

[Michael Billings]

Nope, not by these names.

Sorry,
-Michael

 

[MJS]

Well, I didn't include it in the descriptions, but in all of these, and diving hawk specifically, you can take a couple steps forward to get your balance and relieve pressure - has no one heard of these techniques?

I've heard of all 3 of these techniques and I've done all 3. I guess where I was trying to go with the description was if you're being pushed or moved forward, Silent Escape would be the best choice seeing that you're already going forward.

Mike

 

[Flying Crane]

Hi Sam,

This illustrates what in my opinion, is a problem with the Tracy system: too much stuff, too much repetition. As you progress in the system, this may become more clear to you.

Personally, I think it is good to have some variety to choose from, regarding techniques to use against various types of attacks. You and I are different, so what may work for me, may not necessarily work so well for you, and vice versa, even for the same attack. Learn the variety, but you may decide to focus on certain techniques that are best for you.

Ultimately, I think the system has a catalogue of techniques that is too large, to the point of being cumbersome. I think as a Tracy Kenpo practitioner, ultimately you need to study what is presented in the material, and decide what is best for you. In the end, you may not keep everything. In my opinion, just because somebody invented something once-upon-a-time in the past, doesn't meant that we all need to keep doing it, if it doesn't make sense to us.

I know all three of these techniques, but I learned Retreating from the Horizon as Passing the Horizon.

 

[HKphooey]

Crane,

Welcome back to the mainland!

Tracy or Parker, so many techniques! As you stated, choose what works for you. Personally, I have 10-15 techniques I would use on the street.

 

[Flying Crane]

Crane,

Welcome back to the mainland!

Tracy or Parker, so many techniques! As you stated, choose what works for you. Personally, I have 10-15 techniques I would use on the street.

Thanks, man, we had a great time, but glad to be back none the less.

Agreed. A small number of well trained and useful techniques will work best. Wade thru the volume and discover those that work for yourself.

 

[tigdra]

[FONT=&quot]Retreating from the Horizon serves as a failed Passing the Horizon; the left elbow that is performed may have been blocked by the opponent, Retreating from the Horizon uses the opponent’s block as an impulse to spin back around instead of staying there and making a bad situation into a worst; such as a hammer lock combined with a rear choke[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Silent Escape, although initially not evident is usually considered a more advance technique. It is usually taught with other techniques that similarly express an advance response to an attack Instead of blocking, counter-grabbing, parrying or any other “safe” technique, silent Escape focuses on opening your mind in regards to defending an attack without having to block or counter it but by merely a flick of the wrist. Silent Escape also as stated is a step forward technique, which also implies more proximity to the opponent and possibly an inability to step back.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ran out of time I’ll talk about diving hawk later.[/FONT]