Sil Lum Tao on One Leg

[Cephalopod]

This is true. Static training is not the same as dynamic training, and solo training cannot replicate working with a partner who can apply unanticipated force to test your stance.

Granted.
The interesting question that this thread has raised, however, is how can you make best use of solo training to improve your stability under duress.

As I'm lucky enough to have people to frequently train with, it is hard for me to measure exactly how much benefit I have gleaned from the solo training I do at home. But I still feel that it is significant.

I know beyond a doubt that my increase in stability over recent years has not come from getting stronger legs (yep, I'm still pretty scrawny and I ain't getting any younger) but rather from increased mindfulness of the engagement of my core. (That, and I've gotten better and not letting people apply force directly onto my center, but that's a separate topic)

In the pursuit of said mindfulness I have made it a habit to practice this awareness when I do chores about the house. For example, when I open the utensil drawer, previously I would always stoop slightly (curve the spine forward) to reach the drawer. Now, I keep the core engaged and bend slightly at the knees to reach the drawer. Similarly, when I open and close a heavy door at work, rather then flexing my shoulder and tilting at the hip to deliver force, I relax my shoulder, engage my core and do the work entirely with my legs.
The more I practice these silly sounding habits, the more I find myself doing them without thinking.

For myself I have no doubt that the stability trained like this on my own has translated to better stability under forces from a partner. Sure, there's other aspects that can only be trained with a partner such as sensitivity to where said forces are directed, and timing. But for me that partner training builds on a foundation of mindfulness to not let the core tilt and buckle, but rather efficiently translate the force through the body to the ground.

 

[LFJ]

No need to mock his efforts. Single leg training, like SLT itself, is an excellent developmental exercise.

Was not mocking. Static balance and isometric endurance are being confused for rooting here, and then he's wondering why he's being uprooted after spending a month focusing on static balance and isometric endurance.

When he complains about the ineffectiveness to his teacher, he's basically told to just trust him and keep standing around on one leg.

Single leg training can be beneficial, but I personally think single-leg SNT is a waste of time. I don't think if he does this for another month the results are going to be any different. It is not how you develop rooting.

 

[wingchun100]

This is true. Static training is not the same as dynamic training, and solo training cannot replicate working with a partner who can apply unanticipated force to test your stance.


On the other hand, I always admired the balance and grace of those Sudanese herdsmen who could stand around on one leg for hours....

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/bb/b4/0e/bbb40e04098a4f2b189b88e369dcbd55.jpg

Of course not. I was never saying anything to the contrary of that. And if certain people are insinuating I did...then they are reading between the lines for things that aren't there.

I train any way I can. If the benefits of what I do are limited...well, it is what it is.

I think it's rather immature and counterproductive to mock people for their way of training. Even if I read on here how someone was trying to train for Wing Chun in a way that wouldn't work, I would never insult them. I would say something like, "Interesting. Have you ever heard of method X? That could benefit what you are trying to achieve because of reasons XYZ."

That's a MUCH better way to approach it.

And I say that without having read a single word of what the ignored member has said. I just know how they operate enough to say that communicating in the way I described would be received more positively.

 

[wingchun100]

Granted.
The interesting question that this thread has raised, however, is how can you make best use of solo training to improve your stability under duress.

As I'm lucky enough to have people to frequently train with, it is hard for me to measure exactly how much benefit I have gleaned from the solo training I do at home. But I still feel that it is significant.

I know beyond a doubt that my increase in stability over recent years has not come from getting stronger legs (yep, I'm still pretty scrawny and I ain't getting any younger) but rather from increased mindfulness of the engagement of my core. (That, and I've gotten better and not letting people apply force directly onto my center, but that's a separate topic)

In the pursuit of said mindfulness I have made it a habit to practice this awareness when I do chores about the house. For example, when I open the utensil drawer, previously I would always stoop slightly (curve the spine forward) to reach the drawer. Now, I keep the core engaged and bend slightly at the knees to reach the drawer. Similarly, when I open and close a heavy door at work, rather then flexing my shoulder and tilting at the hip to deliver force, I relax my shoulder, engage my core and do the work entirely with my legs.
The more I practice these silly sounding habits, the more I find myself doing them without thinking.

For myself I have no doubt that the stability trained like this on my own has translated to better stability under forces from a partner. Sure, there's other aspects that can only be trained with a partner such as sensitivity to where said forces are directed, and timing. But for me that partner training builds on a foundation of mindfulness to not let the core tilt and buckle, but rather efficiently translate the force through the body to the ground.

Right.

Unfortunately at this point in time, the class I attend meets only once a week. Due to my crazy life schedule, I get to go only once every TWO weeks. Even when I do go, the largest the class has ever been was 5 people...many of whom are just learning and therefore not working on the same things that I am at my level. Long story short: I do what I can. I don't care if some anonymous person on an internet message board mocks my training. I do what I can, and I keep my passion and drive for Wing Chun alive. THAT is what counts.

 

[Cephalopod]

Single leg training can be beneficial, but I personally think single-leg SNT is a waste of time.

Fair enough. I respect that opinion.

When he complains about the ineffectiveness to his teacher, he's basically told to just trust him and keep standing around on one leg.

So I present to you this question: If you were in a hypothetical situation that '100 lays out in post #44, what would your teacher (hypothetically) tell you to practice in your free time to improve your rooting?

You don't need to remind me that distance learning is sub-optimal. That's beyond question. But would your teacher really just shrug his shoulders and tell you to give up?

 

[wingchun100]

I expanded my searching to include non-martial arts balance exercises, preferably those on one leg of course.

Wound up with a TON of options to search through.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Just remembered there is a style of taijiquan, Zhaobao, that does push hands on one leg to train root and improve leg strength. maybe you should give that a try with chi sau

 

[KPM]

I think training by standing on one leg is a mixed bag. Rooting isn't entirely about balance or even strong legs. Rooting is more about having a firm connection to the ground....which is more a matter of learning how to sink your center of gravity into your stance. It is about how to control your center of gravity to keep from being pushed or pulled off-balance. Strong legs are a factor, but it has to be more of a dynamic strength. Think about a big dog on a lease that doesn't want to go where you want him to go! He sinks his weight and braces against the pull of the lease. That's one aspect. Now think about trying to pick someone up that doesn't want to be picked up. They can relax and be like jello and make themselves a "dead weight." That's another aspect. So standing on one leg is a mixed bag because it develops some strength that is an aspect of rooting and helps with balance that is another aspect of rooting, but there is more to it than that! And if you are really concerned about stronger legs, there are far more efficient ways to develop that strength than standing around on one leg!

 

[Vajramusti]

Just remembered there is a style of taijiquan, Zhaobao, that does push hands on one leg to train root and improve leg strength. maybe you should give that a try with chi sau

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Standing on one leg when done right can improve strength and balance in
good wing chun. Chen stylists including CXW can do various pushing exercises on one leg.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To train how to stand on single leg (static rooting) is hard. To train how to hop on single leg (dynamic rooting) can be harder.

 

[anerlich]

I had physiotherapy for some back trouble about 20 years ago. One of the exercise was to stand on one leg with a proper pelvic tilt, and move your arms in various patterns so as to work balance and the supporting and stabilising muscles around the hip and sacroiliac joint. Seems one legged SLT would work those muscles in a similar fashion.

Did various precision hopping and leaping drills as well, concentrating on stable landings in good posture with the right muscles contracted.

The physiotherapy was very successful. So this might be worthwhile for some people, at least.

 

[LFJ]

But would your teacher really just shrug his shoulders and tell you to give up?

What do you mean "really"? You didn't even give me a chance to answer the question! lol

As stated, static balance + isometric endurance ≠ rooting.

To figure out how to train rooting on your own, first determine what it is that uproots you.

Unless you're a toddler just learning to stand and walk, you should never fall over by losing balance or tiring out from just standing around on your own.

So, just standing around on one leg (i.e. single-leg SNT) is a waste of time for developing root.

What will uproot you, then?

It is possible to lose one's own balance in fighting due to over-rotating, over-reaching, or just not keeping a good stance beneath oneself while moving around.

CK and related footwork drills will help with this. You can do them in such a way that it forces you to your limit, to maintain alignment and control your own body mass through extreme motion.

But, that's not yet even considering facing an opponent and what they might do to uproot you. That is, you also have to deal with external forces.

In absence of a training partner, there are many things you can do to simulate external forces acting on your structure and testing your alignment;

Lots of heavy bag punching and kicking drills. Single-leg training can also be beneficial here. Single-leg kicking drills on the heavy bag, dummy, or wall; single-leg pole drills, etc..

These things are all far more useful than just standing around on one leg for long periods of time. That will do nothing to help develop rooting.

A good teacher should be able to instruct someone on such drills, and not just say; "trust me, it works, just keep standing around on one leg" when that obviously hasn't been working.

Only having lower level training partners shouldn't be a problem either. Especially if they are all able to uproot the guy, as he said.

There's no need to get too "advanced" and "spar" each other in chi-sau. Just work together on exchanging forces through basic pun-sau, then basic seung-ma/teui-ma drills, some simple pushing and pulling drills, etc..

It should be a method of mutual development!

Giving the guy a program to train rooting really shouldn't be that hard if the teacher knows what he's doing. But WC100 seems pretty lost, right now.

 

[wckf92]

But WC100 seems pretty lost, right now.

Agreed.
And, if I recall correctly, he once posted about being between lineages, not being certified by either of his sifus to teach etc.

 

[wingchun100]

Agreed.
And, if I recall correctly, he once posted about being between lineages, not being certified by either of his sifus to teach etc.

I can teach up to my level, hence why I offered that intro to wing chun class at a local college last March.

 

[Phobius]

I can teach up to my level, hence why I offered that intro to wing chun class at a local college last March.

I hope noone ever has the option to teach above their level.

 

[wingchun100]

I hope noone ever has the option to teach above their level.

Some students turn into renegades and strike out on their own because they believe they're at a higher level than they actually are.

 

[geezer]

Some students turn into renegades and strike out on their own because they believe they're at a higher level than they actually are.

Yep. And other students who are actually very good become renegades because they are egotistical jerks.

...and still others become renegades because their sifus are egotistical jerks!

Gotta assess the situation on a case by case basis.

 

[Cephalopod]

Yep. And other students who are actually very good become renegades because they are egotistical jerks.

...and still others become renegades because their sifus are egotistical jerks!

Gotta assess the situation on a case by case basis.

...and then there are those big beefy lads who become sifus because, skill notwithstanding, they can run over their classmates like Jeep Renegades.

 

[wingchun100]

...and then there are those big beefy lads who become sifus because, skill notwithstanding, they can run over their classmates like Jeep Renegades.

Yes, and then spread a version of Wing Chun that is NOT Wing Chun.

 

[geezer]

Yes, and then spread a version of Wing Chun that is NOT Wing Chun.

Well, hard-style Wing Chun anyways. Historically different VT/WC personalities varied their interpretation of the system according to what worked for them. Larger. more powerful individuals typically expressed their VT differently than smaller, weaker individuals.

In my lineage, this is the interpretation of the story (or fable, if you prefer) of Yip Man's two teachers, Chan Wah Shun and Leung Bic. Chan Wah shun in his prime was a powerful and aggressive fighter. Leung Bic was less powerful and more of a technician, ...a soft stylist if you will. Yip Man stated that he learned from both, and at different times in his life stressed one or the other more. My teacher learned from Yip Man at the end of his life, when he was physically weak and emphasized the later (Leung Bic) perspective.

Note: I do not insist that the anyone believe the Leung Bic story. I present it as a part of our oral history that addresses the harder and softer strands within the Yip Man VT lineage. And, it is evident that at different times, with different students, Yip Man emphasized different aspects of the totality that is Wing Chun. Unlike some forum members, I do not subscribe to the theory that the variation in WC/VT as practiced by Yip Man's students today is entirely due to their poor understanding or unbridled personal creativity. Although, that is a factor too.