Should we Legalize marijuana?

[Xue Sheng]

Again, I feel that the cigarettes are a non issue being that they are declining in popularity...the mobs/black market isn't making a killing off of them like they do pot..they just don't.

and the fireworks was just an attempt at an analogy...people are going to get hurt either way you look at it...as someone said before...You can't legislate stupid.

It is not a non-issue, it is an inconvenient one based on what I have read in this thread, cigarettes are still pretty high up on the cause of death charts as far as health is concerned and they are still around and not going out of business anytime soon. You can ignore it, call it a non-issue but it is parallel to the whole legalize Marijuana point of view. Assuming that cigarettes go away then marijuana drops right in (if legalized) to fill the void for organized crime. Crime does not go away, it gets displaced and or changes to fit the times.... just ask any criminologist

But then you know what, you are young and I was all for legalization when I was young and now I am old and just don’t see it as something I wasn’t or something that will happen anytime soon. The whole lets legalize marijuana thing to me is just this side of tilting at windmills and you are never going to convince me otherwise and I will never be able to convince you either... but you know what… wait about 20 or 30 years and I am betting that time and experience will change your mind

This entire post is growing tiresome... now is the time on Sprokets when we dance

I’m out

Have fun storming the castle….

 

[Steve]

I think I may've said this in another post, but....

whats interesting, is that you see lots of violence due to drugs, yet you rarely see any violence over someone trying to get alcohol. Would legalizing weed, cut down on drug violence? Something tells me it wouldn't, but I guess if it was made legal, only time would tell.

MJS, are you seriously suggesting that there is no direct correlation between alcohol and violence?

If weed were legalized, it would certainly cut down on violence associated with the illegal trade. Legalization of weed wouldn't change violence related to consumption of weed. However, the violence would have to be pretty severe to come close to the violence and avoidable deaths we see directly resulting from the consumption of alcohol every day.

 

[MJS]

Not trying to get alcohol maybe but afterwards things get different: Bar fights, Domestic Violence, Automobile Accidents. Etc.

A guy I meant in a security training seminar was a ex-Army Ranger, and at that time a bouncer, said there are 2 things that just do not mix...humans and alcohol and he was a firm believer in if you want an idiot, take one human and just add alcohol.

I am not so sure it would be any different if Marijuana was legalized, there would still be associated violence of one sort or another

Agreed! That was kinda the point I was getting at, but wasn't as clear as you. There're side effects to everything. Earlier I said something about responsibility, and being able to control intake. IMO, more people than not, can't control themselves, thus, the reason why I dont think that we'd see a decrease in drug related violence.

 

[MJS]

I have known Heavy Alcohol users steal from family and such just so they can get there next drink..but that kind of addiction can be found anywhere..and dare I say...even in the martial arts community. People get addicted to the pain, and/or exercise...just like people get addicted to Tattoos, video games, adrenaline, etc.

So, going on that, its safe to say, IMO anyways, that we probably wouldn't see a decrease in drug related crime. Even if it was legal, like alcohol, we'd probably still see theft and/or violence, in order for people to get their fix. Just a few days ago, in the city in which I work, some dirt bag heroin junkie, grabbed some cash from an elderly woman, as she left the store. Now, I put part of the blame on her, for walking out with $70+ in her hand, but still, she didn't deserve to have some piece of **** do that to her. On the plus side, a witness followed the piece of ****, and guided the cops right to him.

 

[MJS]

I use to be security in a Hospital that had a detox unit and I never saw anyone being brought in to detox from Marijuana either... but I did see a guy come in via ambulance from a car accident, he was the driver, and he was reeking of marijuana and had a bag of marijuana in his pocket… apparently he veered over the median and hit another car.

Same thing happens with Alcohol too… legalize it and just get more of the same.

It is kind of like Mac vs PC as it applies to viruses and malware. It is not because Mac is any better or worse it is because it is not as popular at the enterprise level so it is not targeted.

Legalize Marijuana and you will get all sorts of problems you never dreamed of as well as an increase in others previously known.

Funny you should mention the car accidents. A few pages back, I posted a few links to crashes related to weed. It all goes back to what I said about being responsible and exercising control and good solid judgement....something we dont see alot of.

 

[granfire]

So, going on that, its safe to say, IMO anyways, that we probably wouldn't see a decrease in drug related crime. Even if it was legal, like alcohol, we'd probably still see theft and/or violence, in order for people to get their fix. Just a few days ago, in the city in which I work, some dirt bag heroin junkie, grabbed some cash from an elderly woman, as she left the store. Now, I put part of the blame on her, for walking out with $70+ in her hand, but still, she didn't deserve to have some piece of **** do that to her. On the plus side, a witness followed the piece of ****, and guided the cops right to him.

Y'all are mixing the problems up again (well, it's not easy to keep them apart)

You are talking about a heroin addict. by all accounts it's pretty bad when you come down, pot is said to not cause much of a physical dependency, comparatable to cigarets.

I don't think there is much in terms of criminal activity to buy pot...
However, growing the **** is big money still, because it's illegal. So the way from field to consumer is tricky and $$ costly. You take the illegal part of it out, it should become less troublesome. (just like the rum runners and boot leggers taken out of the equation eased up the criminal aspect in drinking.)

Naturally that does not cover driving while stoned...like it does not cover driving while drunk.

 

[MJS]

MJS, are you seriously suggesting that there is no direct correlation between alcohol and violence?

If weed were legalized, it would certainly cut down on violence associated with the illegal trade. Legalization of weed wouldn't change violence related to consumption of weed. However, the violence would have to be pretty severe to come close to the violence and avoidable deaths we see directly resulting from the consumption of alcohol every day.

Not at all Steve. I think there may've been some confusion with my point I was trying to make. Let me clarify. Some here, were suggesting that if weed were legal, it'd cut down on violence. I was saying it was interesting, because most of the people who we see doing street robberies, do it so they can get a quick fix. You see people robbing others, to buy crack, heroin, etc, but rarely see them running to the liquor store to buy a beer.

I said that time would ultimately tell us whether or not crime would decrease. As for alcohol related violence...XS pointed that out in one of his posts, to which I agreed. Alcohol is a huge factor in people being *******s, thus one of the main reasons I dont frequent bars.

Again, you'll note that I also spoke of the inability for many, to control their intake

 

[MJS]

Y'all are mixing the problems up again (well, it's not easy to keep them apart)

You are talking about a heroin addict. by all accounts it's pretty bad when you come down, pot is said to not cause much of a physical dependency, comparatable to cigarets.

I don't think there is much in terms of criminal activity to buy pot...
However, growing the **** is big money still, because it's illegal. So the way from field to consumer is tricky and $$ costly. You take the illegal part of it out, it should become less troublesome. (just like the rum runners and boot leggers taken out of the equation eased up the criminal aspect in drinking.)

Naturally that does not cover driving while stoned...like it does not cover driving while drunk.

Well, like I said, time will tell.

 

[Sensei Payne]

It is not a non-issue, it is an inconvenient one based on what I have read in this thread, cigarettes are still pretty high up on the cause of death charts as far as health is concerned and they are still around and not going out of business anytime soon. You can ignore it, call it a non-issue but it is parallel to the whole legalize Marijuana point of view. Assuming that cigarettes go away then marijuana drops right in (if legalized) to fill the void for organized crime. Crime does not go away, it gets displaced and or changes to fit the times.... just ask any criminologist

But then you know what, you are young and I was all for legalization when I was young and now I am old and just don’t see it as something I wasn’t or something that will happen anytime soon. The whole lets legalize marijuana thing to me is just this side of tilting at windmills and you are never going to convince me otherwise and I will never be able to convince you either... but you know what… wait about 20 or 30 years and I am betting that time and experience will change your mind

This entire post is growing tiresome... now is the time on Sprokets when we dance

I’m out

Have fun storming the castle….

Its not just the young that want this plant legalized for sale...there are many on the Hill that want to see it legalized to. Telling people what they can or can not do with there bodies is unconstitutional. A reason why Roe V. Wade is still in effect.

Ciggerete smoking has declined in the last 10 years...those numbers you posted are still very large indeed..but they are still shrinking. With all the ordinences about smoking in public places, its made smoking more inconvient now more than ever. Smoking will be even more of a non issue by the time I am, your age.

I gotta say that age discrimination on this issue doesn't progress your argument about keeping pot illegal at all...in fact, if it does anything it progesses mine. My Generation wants it legalized. We are the future. So inevidably...it will happen. Facts are that many people, of all voting aged adults, want to see it legalized.

The war on drugs has failed

 

[Xue Sheng]

I gotta say that age discrimination on this issue doesn't progress your argument about keeping pot illegal at all...in fact, if it does anything it progesses mine. My Generation wants it legalized. We are the future. So inevidably...it will happen. Facts are that many people, of all voting aged adults, want to see it legalized.

Age discrimination has absolutly nothng to do with it and I do not think anything I said would constitute throwing that one out... it is simply the naivete of youth... been there... done that... bought the coffee cup and the t-shirt... kind of miss it actually...

I'll let you in on a couple of secrets

Those guys on the hill.... don't care about you me or anyone else beyond the vote we supply when they need it.... oh and of course our $$$... so any thing they are doing has more to do with $$$ first and votes second

But here is the big one, this one is the important one..... my generation use to be the future too..... now we're the present... and all those kids at the first woodstock... they were the future too.... now they are becoming the past

 

[Sensei Payne]

But here is the big one, this one is the important one..... my generation use to be the future too..... now we're the present... and all those kids at the first woodstock... they were the future too.... now they are becoming the past

My point exactly.

Every Generation tries to do it just a little bit better than the last.

Politicians evenutally have no choice but to do what we want...sure...it takes them a really long time to come around to somethings...but eventually, the people win out...Why? Because we effect the pocket books of the companies that own them.

 

[Xue Sheng]

My point exactly.

Every Generation tries to do it just a little bit better than the last.

Politicians evenutally have no choice but to do what we want...sure...it takes them a really long time to come around to somethings...but eventually, the people win out...Why? Because we effect the pocket books of the companies that own them.

Actually that is not my point at all... have things gotten better...nope

Are politicians getting better...nope

As time goes on...things get worse

People will only win when they stop looking at things along party lines and look at thing along the lines as what is best for the country and its people

If you want the future to be different you have to start much younger than you to make things better, you have to start in elementary school... for your generation as a whole it is already to late... your part of the machine already

We do not agree at all and our points appear to be opposite sides of the spectrum and I will again say...give it time... you will understand.

I shall waste no more time here

Have fun storming the castle

 

[Sensei Payne]

Actually that is not my point at all... have things gotten better...nope


People will only win when they stop looking at things along party lines and look at thing along the lines as what is best for the country and its people

At least this we can both agree...the two party system is broken, and according to our founding fathers, its not what they had imagined for us.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Wait. Pot is illegal? When did that happen?

 

[Twin Fist]

you missed it while you were on a taco bell run.....

 

[MA-Caver]

Well here's an argument that's probably good for the "against legalization"...

http://biertijd.com/mediaplayer/?itemid=28717

At first it's almost like watching a clip from Reefer Madness... then for whatever reason the guy paranoids OUT and literally goes through the window... he's damned lucky he wasn't any higher up off the ground. Also lucky didn't get sliced open by the glass. The girl... well she's just too blitzed to even take note of it at first.

Obviously they've been smoking the whole day long because I've never seen anyone get so blitzed from just one bong hit (apiece)... no dope in the world is that powerful (unless of course it's spiked with something else).

I find it amazing also that they're not afraid of legal reprisals for posting their usage on the net for all to see.

 

[poollshark]

Well here's an argument that's probably good for the "against legalization"...

http://biertijd.com/mediaplayer/?itemid=28717

At first it's almost like watching a clip from Reefer Madness... then for whatever reason the guy paranoids OUT and literally goes through the window... he's damned lucky he wasn't any higher up off the ground. Also lucky didn't get sliced open by the glass. The girl... well she's just too blitzed to even take note of it at first.

Obviously they've been smoking the whole day long because I've never seen anyone get so blitzed from just one bong hit (apiece)... no dope in the world is that powerful (unless of course it's spiked with something else).

I find it amazing also that they're not afraid of legal reprisals for posting their usage on the net for all to see.

That is not a video of people smoking pot, read the header on the video

"Don't Ever Use Salvia.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum

 

[granfire]

That is not a video of people smoking pot, read the header on the video

"Don't Ever Use Salvia.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum

Sage advice...

(yes, that's a pun)

 

[Sensei Payne]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/08/national/main20070181.shtml

Congrats Conn.


Enjoy!

 

[MA-Caver]

Take an hour and watch this... to completion. Both sides of the coin.

http://documentaryheaven.com/cannabis-the-evil-weed/