Should "running" be part of your MA training?

[Xue Sheng]

I run when preparing for tournaments, but I skip and weight train year round. I've always had good cardio and can usually spar 15 2 min rounds straight before I get tired. When I do run I usually just do short bursts of 15 seconds followed by 1 minute of jogging, and run for no more than 15 minutes. I honestly enjoy sparring and weight training much more and get most of my cardio from that tho.

Had a Xingyi shifu who, prior to getting into CMA, fought in Karate Matches and his view was if you are going to compete you just have to accept the fact that you will need to be running at least 5 miles per day. But if you are not competing he did not see the sense in it as long as you were in reasonably good shape.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I agree, with the caveat that it should be individual, not a set standard.

If a guy starts training with me at 40, and is 100 lbs overweight and out of shape, he may never be able to do the things I'd expect of someone who started as I did (18 and athletic, when I started what became my primary art). So, I'd be looking for the fit people to do enough to at least maintain fitness. I'd expect the slightly out-of-shape to get fit. I'd expect the hypothetical guy I started this paragraph with to improve his fitness. Those would be my requirements for them to progress over time.

Go back 15, 20 years and I use to train a minimum 1.5 to 2 hours a day...then a tree fell on me and that was the end of that for a while. Then got back to a hour 5 days per week, then broke an ankle, followed by messed up a knee, followed by messed up the other knee. When I could get back to training I decided to try and get back to my 1.5 to 2 hours a day using the same routine...of course this is now 15 years later and I would reinjure myself, went to the old 5 day a week routine, reinjured myself, did this several times before I both realized and accepted that a man in his 50s, who has been fairly sedentary due to injuries, cannot workout like a guy in his late 30s early 40s who has maintained his routine for several years. after multiple routines and a few MDs telling me what I can and cannot do and should and should not do I think I have it and so far I have not reinjured myself.

Long way to say I agree with you and I am saying this based on personal experience.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Let me put it another way...

Requirements for certain levels of physical fitness or 'running' are exclusive. In other words, they serve to exclude. Well, I'm sorry, you seem to be able to do the martial arts techniques we have taught you, but you can't run, so no promotion for you.

Or you're too fat.

Or you're too old.

Or you have a disability.

Or you are too....

Bottom line, if 'running' or 'being skinny' or 'being in good physical condition' is a requirement for advancement in a given martial arts style, I have zero interest in that style, and frankly, little respect for anyone who would demand those things as a condition for promotion. In this world of people trying hard to find a 'reason' to exclude people they don't like from their little clubs, I don't want to be a member of any club that works that way.

I am 56 years old in July. I'm not in great shape. I have diabetes, I'm overweight, I have a couple other pesky little diseases I won't bother mentioning. This is as good as it gets. That's either good enough or it is not; it won't change at this point, barring something miraculous. Frankly, I would suggest that I can hold my own on the mat. I'm willing to put that to the test if any twig wants to give me a try.

 

[DanT]

Had a Xingyi shifu who, prior to getting into CMA, fought in Karate Matches and his view was if you are going to compete you just have to accept the fact that you will need to be running at least 5 miles per day. But if you are not competing he did not see the sense in it as long as you were in reasonably good shape.

I agree, although I don't run 5 miles, maybe 2. Sparring to me helps more with cardio than anything.

 

[jobo]

Let me put it another way...

Requirements for certain levels of physical fitness or 'running' are exclusive. In other words, they serve to exclude. Well, I'm sorry, you seem to be able to do the martial arts techniques we have taught you, but you can't run, so no promotion for you.

Or you're too fat.

Or you're too old.

Or you have a disability.

Or you are too....

Bottom line, if 'running' or 'being skinny' or 'being in good physical condition' is a requirement for advancement in a given martial arts style, I have zero interest in that style, and frankly, little respect for anyone who would demand those things as a condition for promotion. In this world of people trying hard to find a 'reason' to exclude people they don't like from their little clubs, I don't want to be a member of any club that works that way.

I am 56 years old in July. I'm not in great shape. I have diabetes, I'm overweight, I have a couple other pesky little diseases I won't bother mentioning. This is as good as it gets. That's either good enough or it is not; it won't change at this point, barring something miraculous. Frankly, I would suggest that I can hold my own on the mat. I'm willing to put that to the test if any twig wants to give me a try.

yes i see your point, but if you follow it through to it logical conclusion, you will end up with a class full of black belts that can hardly walk, there surely has to be a minimum fitness level associated with each level of grade .
I see it differently I'm 58 and I used to be fat weak and slow , now I'm not because I took my marshal arts seriously, if I'm not fit enough to wear a belt with honour I don't want it given to me out of sympathy

 

[Bill Mattocks]

yes i see your point, but if you follow it through to it logical conclusion, you will end up with a class full of black belts that can hardly walk, there surely has to be a minimum fitness level associated with each level of grade .
I see it differently I'm 58 and I used to be fat weak and slow , now I'm not because I took my marshal arts seriously, if I'm not fit enough to wear a belt with honour I don't want it given to me out of sympathy

I don't know what your martial arts style is, but in mine, a person can do the techniques or they cannot. We happen to have a student who 'cannot walk'. He can do the techniques (granted, some are modified to fit his disability). You would seem to be suggesting that we should turn him away. After all, he 'cannot walk'.

I can do the techniques necessary for my training. I don't know what my weight has to do with anything at all.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

yes i see your point, but if you follow it through to it logical conclusion, you will end up with a class full of black belts that can hardly walk, there surely has to be a minimum fitness level associated with each level of grade .
I see it differently I'm 58 and I used to be fat weak and slow , now I'm not because I took my marshal arts seriously, if I'm not fit enough to wear a belt with honour I don't want it given to me out of sympathy

And may I just add that's some seriously insulting garbage right there. You insinuate that because I am fat, I am 'weak and slow' and that my black belt was given to me out of sympathy. Up yours, pal. Seriously.

 

[jobo]

And may I just add that's some seriously insulting garbage right there. You insinuate that because I am fat, I am 'weak and slow' and that my black belt was given to me out of sympathy. Up yours, pal. Seriously.

??? That's your issue not mine, you said you were over weight, I said I was fat and weak and slow, I know nothing at all about your condition but what you have posted. But being over weight with diabetes. Doesn't paint a picture of good health

 

[Danny T]

As I stated; 'depending upon one's physical abilities'...
Have a student who has one leg; his prosthesis doesn't allow him to run.
Have a student who has a thyroid condition (is under medical care) is obese and can't run but works hard and can do most of the techniques well. Understands how to do those he has difficulty with and is excellent in coaching others do them well.
Have had in the past students in wheel chairs.
We modify and develop them to greatest of their capacities.

 

[jobo]

I don't know what your martial arts style is, but in mine, a person can do the techniques or they cannot. We happen to have a student who 'cannot walk'. He can do the techniques (granted, some are modified to fit his disability). You would seem to be suggesting that we should turn him away. After all, he 'cannot walk'.

I can do the techniques necessary for my training. I don't know what my weight has to do with anything at all.

I've not said anyone should be turned away, its the society we live in , every one gets a prize, turn up for 6 months and get a belt.
when I was starting my fitness , it was suggested that I play walking football, my response was quite literally, id sooner die trying to play proper football, than accept second best. And play real football I did, then they gave me a prize for being the oldest there, I left the week after

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Had a Xingyi shifu who, prior to getting into CMA, fought in Karate Matches and his view was if you are going to compete you just have to accept the fact that you will need to be running at least 5 miles per day. But if you are not competing he did not see the sense in it as long as you were in reasonably good shape.

I'm not sure I see the connection between 5 miles a day and competing in a tournament. There are other ways than running that much to get one's wind up, and it's arguable that distance running at that level isn't developing the best type of endurance for those matches.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Let me put it another way...

Requirements for certain levels of physical fitness or 'running' are exclusive. In other words, they serve to exclude. Well, I'm sorry, you seem to be able to do the martial arts techniques we have taught you, but you can't run, so no promotion for you.

Or you're too fat.

Or you're too old.

Or you have a disability.

Or you are too....

Bottom line, if 'running' or 'being skinny' or 'being in good physical condition' is a requirement for advancement in a given martial arts style, I have zero interest in that style, and frankly, little respect for anyone who would demand those things as a condition for promotion. In this world of people trying hard to find a 'reason' to exclude people they don't like from their little clubs, I don't want to be a member of any club that works that way.

I am 56 years old in July. I'm not in great shape. I have diabetes, I'm overweight, I have a couple other pesky little diseases I won't bother mentioning. This is as good as it gets. That's either good enough or it is not; it won't change at this point, barring something miraculous. Frankly, I would suggest that I can hold my own on the mat. I'm willing to put that to the test if any twig wants to give me a try.

Agreed. I can't see any reason to have a baseline fitness every student must reach, nor a baseline activity level. If they can do the activities of the program, they are doing what is required. In my case, that includes an informal requirement that they be working on their fitness in some reasonable way (maintaining or improving, depending upon their personal need and capacity).

The only place I could see a blanket fitness requirement ("You must be this fit to get ____") would be in a heavy competition environment, where a coach wants to only coach those with a high chance of success in some type of gruelling competition. Anywhere else, fitness should be based upon the needs of the activity. I use fitness goals and expectations (as I said earlier, those are relative to where they start, and based on their capacities) to help folks improve their overall abilities.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

yes i see your point, but if you follow it through to it logical conclusion, you will end up with a class full of black belts that can hardly walk, there surely has to be a minimum fitness level associated with each level of grade .
I see it differently I'm 58 and I used to be fat weak and slow , now I'm not because I took my marshal arts seriously, if I'm not fit enough to wear a belt with honour I don't want it given to me out of sympathy

I don't think that's a logical conclusion. That's an outside possibility. I've been to many schools with absolutely no fitness requirement (nor even an informal expectation), and nearly all of the black belts were reasonably fit (or better).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My training include 4 parts:

1. MA,
2. weight,
3. running.
4. stretching.

If this week I spend 3 days in running + stretching + MA and 2 days in weight + MA, next week I will spend 3 days in weight + MA and 2 days in running + stretching + MA.

The funny thing is I won't feel guilty if I skip one day of MA training or weight training. But I do feel guilty to skip one day of my running. The fear that one day I'll be too old to run just keep me running. The way that I look at this is, if I don't use it, I'll lose it.

 

[Jenna]

If you can't fight your opponent, at least you should have the ability to run away. IMO, running should be an important part of the MA training. If you can run faster than your opponent, none of his MA skill can apply on you. Your thought?

What if this bogey man can also run fast.. he may be faster and fitter and you have already assessed that you cannot fight your opponent which is why you opted have ran away.. what next?

 

[jobo]

What if this bogey man can also run fast.. he may be faster and fitter and you have already assessed that you cannot fight your opponent which is why you opted have ran away.. what next?

then you 've had it , its the law of the jungle there is always someone faster/stronger than you are, but it a simple numbers game, if your slightly better than averagely fit then you can fight / run away from 50% of the population, if you are somewhat better than average then you can out fight/run ,say 70% of the population. The better you get the safer you are ?

 

[Jenna]

then you had it , its the law of the jungle there is always someone faster/stronger than you are, but it a simple numbers game, if your slightly better than averagely fit then you can fight / run away from 50% of the population, if you are somewhat better than average then you can out fight/run say 70% of the population. The better you get the safer you are ?

So if I keep Usain Bolt with me at all time.. I should be safe enough? I can get on his back.. I am not very heavy just kidding.. I agree with you

 

[DanT]

My training include 4 parts:

1. MA,
2. weight,
3. running.
4. stretching.

If this week I spend 3 days in running + stretching + MA and 2 days in weight + MA, next week I will spend 3 days in weight + MA and 2 days in running + stretching + MA.

The funny thing is I won't feel guilty if I skip one day of MA training or weight training. But I do feel guilty to skip one day of my running. The fear that one day I'll be too old to run just keep me running. The way that I look at this is, if I don't use it, I'll lose it.

Interesting, for me I see everything as part of my martial training, including the running and weight lifting. Why do you consider them separate?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What if this bogey man can also run fast.. he may be faster and fitter and you have already assessed that you cannot fight your opponent which is why you opted have ran away.. what next?

First, you have to decide if not fighting is an option. Is giving in an option? If not, then you have to decide that the odds don't matter. It doesn't matter if you can't beat him, you still have to beat him. You might fail, but you have to put everything you have into that, if that's the only option you see.

 

[jobo]

So if I keep Usain Bolt with me at all time.. I should be safe enough? I can get on his back.. I am not very heavy just kidding.. I agree with you

actually having a really. Hard mate you go every where with is a good plan b