Should "running" be part of your MA training?

[Paul_D]

Agree! Sport is the only format that you can develop dependable MA skill.

So before Maryial Arts contained any sporting elements, no ones skills were dependable?

 

[drop bear]

yea I can see that, commercial considerations' and all., but my earlier post that caused a few,folks to get upset,concerned the point that you shouldn't, to my mind, be able to reach elevated grades unless your fitness was at a good level. . It seems that if your fit enough to bumble through the kata that is sufficient

Yeah. But then what do you do with your soccer mum who has been coming once a week for the last ten years?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So before Maryial Arts contained any sporting elements, no ones skills were dependable?

- If you have taken your opponent down 100 times, when you spar with him the 101th round, the chance that you can still take him down will be high.
- If your opponent throws 100 punches at you and you are still standing, when he throw his 101th punch at you, the chance that you can still standing will be high.
- ...

That's test result from sport will give you confidence. Confidence will give courage, and courage will help your skill to work better.

better score -> confidence -> courage -> better result next time

 

[jobo]

Yeah. But then what do you do with your soccer mum who has been coming once a week for the last ten years?

you spend 10 yeas slowly building their fitness so that by the time they are ready for a black best test they are a killing machine

 

[Paul_D]

- If you have taken your opponent down 100 times, when you spar with him the 101th round, the chance that you can still take him down will be high.
- If your opponent throws 100 punches at you and you are still standing, when he throw his 101th punch at you, the chance that you can still standing will be high.
- ...

That's test result from sport will give you confidence. Confidence will give courage, and courage will help your skill to work better.

better score -> confidence -> courage -> better result next time

I am not denying that, but it doesn't answer my question. You asserted that "Sport is the only format that you can develop dependable MA skill." So my question remains; before martial arts were sports, does that mean no ones MA skills were dependable?

 

[drop bear]

I am not denying that, but it doesn't answer my question. You asserted that "Sport is the only format that you can develop dependable MA skill." So my question remains; before martial arts were sports, does that mean no ones MA skills were dependable?

Which are these pre sports martial arts?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I am not denying that, but it doesn't answer my question. You asserted that "Sport is the only format that you can develop dependable MA skill." So my question remains; before martial arts were sports, does that mean no ones MA skills were dependable?

Without using the "sport" format, how will you be able to test your MA skill?

 

[Steve]

Without using the "sport" format, how will you be able to test your MA skill?

Agreed, unless you're a proper villain, a cop or a soldier. And even then, it depends on your specialty.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I am not denying that, but it doesn't answer my question. You asserted that "Sport is the only format that you can develop dependable MA skill." So my question remains; before martial arts were sports, does that mean no ones MA skills were dependable?

I get so frustrated on this site sometimes...so many arguments are just two people having different meanings for the same word (sport, SD, bodybuilding, black belt, even exersice at one point FGS).
He's referring simply to there being a competitive atmosphere/testing your ability against resistance. Martial arts never lacked a competitive part as a whole, since humanity as a whole is competitive, before MA even existed. Not referring to it as a sport with spectators/set rules/competition like a cage match or pankration.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

having different meanings for the same word (sport, SD, ...

I have seen a guy who has trained Chinese wrestling for 5 years. This guy has gone through perfect partner training. But on the mat, none of his throwing techniques worked on his opponent. So after 5 years of Chinese wresting training, he had develop nothing. What's wrong in his example?

IMO, he could only use his throwing skill when his opponent gave him that opportunity. But in "sport", his opponent didn't give him that opportunity and he didn't know how to create the opportunity to make his throwing techniques work.

 

[jobo]

Without using the "sport" format, how will you be able to test your MA skill?

you correct you cant, I suspect a lot of people with years of trained ng behind them have suddenly found that their skills don't work in real time, or that an elbow to the chin is not the knock out blow they thought it might be

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

that an elbow to the chin is not the knock out blow they thought it might be

This is why I lose interest in the striking art many years ago.

1. Can I truly be able to knock down a 200 lb guy? How can I prove it? I can't.
2. Can I take down a 200 lb guy? I know I can, and I can prove it.

What's the difference here? To do

- 1, I have to hurt my opponent.
- 2, I don't have to hurt my opponent (because it's sport).

 

[jobo]

This is why I lose interest in the striking art many years ago.

1. Can I truly be able to knock down a 200 lb guy? How can I prove it? I can't.
2. Can I take down a 200 lb guy? I know I can, and I can prove it.

What's the difference here? To do

- 1, I have to hurt my opponent.
- 2, I don't have to hurt my opponent (because it's sport).

I thought you were a kung fu man ?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I thought you were a kung fu man ?

Kung Fu men use sport too. Shuai-Chiao (Chinese wrestling), Sanda, Sanshou, are all "sport".

 

[Steve]

you correct you cant, I suspect a lot of people with years of trained ng behind them have suddenly found that their skills don't work in real time, or that an elbow to the chin is not the knock out blow they thought it might be

There are people who are in violent professions. Most are not.

 

[jobo]

There are people who are in violent professions. Most are not.

from my limited experience, its the conversion of drill to real time movement that is the biggest issue to non sports types. Some folk can move with great speed and you follow your moves to find there not there any more.
we were doing a drill where you move to the outside of a right punch, which is difficult in its self at real speed, then took three steps to get behind them , before wrapping you left arm round their neck. It's 3 moves and and 2 second to long. I showed a more effective move, where you step out side the punch and then close line them with your right arm, two movement 2seconds to exicute, but its not in the kata

 

[Paul_D]

I get so frustrated on this site sometimes...so many arguments are just two people having different meanings for the same word (sport, SD, bodybuilding, black belt, even exersice at one point FGS).
He's referring simply to there being a competitive atmosphere/testing your ability against resistance. Martial arts never lacked a competitive part as a whole, since humanity as a whole is competitive, before MA even existed. Not referring to it as a sport with spectators/set rules/competition like a cage match or pankration.

I get so frustrated too, as people see questions as challenges. I simply asked the question to seek clarification. Nothing more.

 

[Paul_D]

Without using the "sport" format, how will you be able to test your MA skill?

I am not referring to me. I am referring to ancient warriors who used their skills on the battlefield when martial arts where "martial" and not sporting.

I am also referring to modern self protection instructor. Let us take purely as an example Lee Morrison (Urban Combatives), the swivel punch that he learnt from Charlie Nelson he has never practice that technique in a sports arena. He has used that technique in a live situation.

According to your statement that should not be possible, as "Sport is the only format that you can develop dependable MA skill." So either your statement is not correct or you are using the term sport differently to most people. I am trying to understand which it is?

 

[jobo]

I am not referring to me. I am referring to ancient warriors who used their skills on the battlefield when martial arts where "martial" and not sporting.

I am also referring to modern self protection instructor. Let us take purely as an example Lee Morrison (Urban Combatives), the swivel punch that he learnt from Charlie Nelson he has never practice that technique in a sports arena. He has used that technique in a live situation.

According to your statement that should not be possible, as "Sport is the only format that you can develop dependable MA skill." So either your statement is not correct or you are using the term sport differently to most people. I am trying to understand which it is?

using them on a battle field is the ultimate test, but they didn't know if they were effective till the battle ended or indeed they died. That's much the same as taking your techneque in to a pub brawl, its a good test but a bit late to realise you needed more work on your block. " sports" fighting is what you do to test your techneque before someone is trying to kill you/ hit you with a broken bottle

 

[Paul_D]

" sports" fighting is what you do to test your techneque before someone is trying to kill you/ hit you with a broken bottle

That’s certainly one way of doing it yes.