Should I train Kobudo all by myself?

[Bill Mattocks]

I will take minor exception to any notion that one has to train to become proficient with kobudo as weapons cum self-defense weapons.

Obviously, the normal reason to train in any form of self-defense is to be able to use that method in a real-life scenario. I would agree with that for empty-hand self-defense, and with weapons one might find oneself in possession of, such as a gun or a knife.

However, it is my opinion that training with some forms of kobudo (most especially as I have noted, bo and sai) are actually pretty good tools to help your empty-handed self-defense as well. In other words, there's nothing at all wrong with training bo and sai (perhaps other weapons) on empty air, without full power, without clocking people over the head with them, etc. Learning to effectively control the weapon can be accomplished without striking anything; the weight, heft, and balance of the weapon in question can all be learned to an effective degree without actually striking anything.

Now, if I intended to train to use, say, a bo, as a self-defense weapon, then absolutely yes, I would say I need to train actually using it to hit people and things. However, I am unlikely to find myself wandering through Sherwood Forest with a large staff, and suddenly be set upon by ruffians intent on relieving me of my purse of gold coins. In other words, a) I don't carry a bo around and b) I can't think of a situation in which I'd wish I had one.

 

[JR 137]

I will take minor exception to any notion that one has to train to become proficient with kobudo as weapons cum self-defense weapons.

Obviously, the normal reason to train in any form of self-defense is to be able to use that method in a real-life scenario. I would agree with that for empty-hand self-defense, and with weapons one might find oneself in possession of, such as a gun or a knife.

However, it is my opinion that training with some forms of kobudo (most especially as I have noted, bo and sai) are actually pretty good tools to help your empty-handed self-defense as well. In other words, there's nothing at all wrong with training bo and sai (perhaps other weapons) on empty air, without full power, without clocking people over the head with them, etc. Learning to effectively control the weapon can be accomplished without striking anything; the weight, heft, and balance of the weapon in question can all be learned to an effective degree without actually striking anything.

Now, if I intended to train to use, say, a bo, as a self-defense weapon, then absolutely yes, I would say I need to train actually using it to hit people and things. However, I am unlikely to find myself wandering through Sherwood Forest with a large staff, and suddenly be set upon by ruffians intent on relieving me of my purse of gold coins. In other words, a) I don't carry a bo around and b) I can't think of a situation in which I'd wish I had one.

I agree for the most part. I'd add that sparring drills are essential to using the weapon though. Before we did Nishiuchi's curriculum, we never hit anything with them. We only did kihon and kata with them. Doing Nishiuchi's 2 person sets (I don't know what else to call them) changed pretty much everything and made it worthwhile. Well, to me anyway. It forced us to hold the weapons correctly and to put them exactly where they're supposed to be. The biggest benefit I personally found was it made me really focus on my movement - footwork, mechanics, and hand positioning.

If you held the bo at the correct points and your hands got wacked while blocking a strike aimed at your shins or your ribs, chances are pretty good that you're posture is off. If you got hit, chances are you're holding it too close to your body (if you got it there in time), if it was knocked out of your hands, you most likely weren't holding it tight enough, stuff like that. Once we started the two person sets, it became a real weapon. All we did previously was swing the thing around in the air, relatively speaking.

You don't have to hit hard to do these things, just hard enough to force you to do them correctly.

And, it's a different workout. I had an old bo that I'd use to hit a tree in my backyard with. I was in very good shape prior to that. Hitting the tree, I was sore in different spots, so I knew I was using muscles I wasn't using previously.

I miss my bo. I've got to wait until shodan until I use one in class. I've seen them do a lot of stuff that similar in principle - kata and standardized 2 person sets. They had or the bo differently and strike somewhat differently, but the principles of movement are the same. If I start practicing what I know, I'll have to unlearn too many things.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I agree for the most part. I'd add that sparring drills are essential to using the weapon though.

Yes, I agree with all you just posted. My comment was more aimed at the general "not using the weapon against partners / targets is useless" comments. It's not useless. I agree that you can get a lot more out of it with kumite of various sorts and/or full-power strikes against non-living targets. All your points about the advantages it bestows are correct, IMHO.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Here is an idea for you. Why not travel to a seminar where someone is teaching Kobudo and learn it properly? Then you will have some skills to continue practicing on your own and hopefully you will have learned it right so that you won't ingrain bad habits.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Training for defensive use, being abke to take 19 other people who also train is probably sufficient.

I will take minor exception to any notion that one has to train to become proficient with kobudo as weapons cum self-defense weapons.

Obviously, the normal reason to train in any form of self-defense is to be able to use that method in a real-life scenario. I would agree with that for empty-hand self-defense, and with weapons one might find oneself in possession of, such as a gun or a knife.

However, it is my opinion that training with some forms of kobudo (most especially as I have noted, bo and sai) are actually pretty good tools to help your empty-handed self-defense as well. In other words, there's nothing at all wrong with training bo and sai (perhaps other weapons) on empty air, without full power, without clocking people over the head with them, etc. Learning to effectively control the weapon can be accomplished without striking anything; the weight, heft, and balance of the weapon in question can all be learned to an effective degree without actually striking anything.

Now, if I intended to train to use, say, a bo, as a self-defense weapon, then absolutely yes, I would say I need to train actually using it to hit people and things. However, I am unlikely to find myself wandering through Sherwood Forest with a large staff, and suddenly be set upon by ruffians intent on relieving me of my purse of gold coins. In other words, a) I don't carry a bo around and b) I can't think of a situation in which I'd wish I had one.

The initial comment that Gerry responded to was about being competent with weapons, nott hat they can be used for self defense.

IMO, for self-defense, you should be training how to be versatile/transfer the skills to other weapons (bo to umbrella or cane for instance), and as long as you can use it without hurting yourself you're at an advantage.

Being competent with the weapon, based on how I view competency, would require enough people who practice with the weapon to have competition actually determine what methods are successful, or practice against other weapons to determine what your learning can be useful.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Being competent with the weapon, based on how I view competency, would require enough people who practice with the weapon to have competition actually determine what methods are successful, or practice against other weapons to determine what your learning can be useful.

I don't disagree. I am saying you don't necessarily need to become "competent with the weapon" to gain *some* positive value from training with it, particularly as it informs empty-handed self-defense, which some specific forms of kobudo do.

 

[senseiblackbelt]

Best to train under a dojo. You receive more accurate training.

 

[Hyoho]

I am a shotokan karateka (Brown Kyu 2). When I see kobudo movements a lot of kata looks similar to karate kata. So I thought trying Kobudo with Bo or Nunchaku might help me to learn something more. Unfortunately Kobudo isn't taught in our dojo or near anywhere in other dojo, the best way to start is just by coping movements from books or youtube videos. Is it worth a try to do something without any physical instruction? Your opinions are humbly welcomed.

So you have not even reached a qualified beginners stage and you already want to do your own thing?

 

[MI_martialist]

Not always the case...hopefully one can receive more accurate instruction in a dojo, but how many dojo have we seen where the "instructor" is more clueless than the student?

Best to train under a dojo. You receive more accurate training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not always the case...hopefully one can receive more accurate instruction in a dojo, but how many dojo have we seen where the "instructor" is more clueless than the student?

Relatively few.

 

[MI_martialist]

I see it all the time!!

Relatively few.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I see it all the time!!

I've seen a few. In nearly all cases (visiting schools, attending seminars, viewing demonstrations), the instructor knows a fair amount more than the students. The only real exceptions (even at a couple of REALLY bad schools I've seen) are a few YouTube videos, where it seems the instructor is completely lacking in knowledge.

 

[Buka]

I've never seen a dojo where the instructor was "more clueless" than the students, never even heard of one. I would imagine a dojo like that wouldn't survive.

Odd choice of words, too.

 

[Gyuki]

You mostly wouldn't know if you were competent anyway. Even if you trained with a legit guy. Has he had experience in weapon fighting?

You would need to go out and bang some dudes in the head with the thing.

As a student of tonfa I confirm this statement. And that is what I intend to do in a safe manner of course.

Foam weapons of quality are available in this day and age. We are also lucky to have various types of schools and practitionners from various arts. Whether it is Kobudo weapons, different kenjutsu styles and even HEMA schools all these people can be practiced with and sparred with in a safe manner with appropriate equipment.

As much as I have learned in school and by myself, I feel that this aspect of weapon training is the mandatory step necessairy to refine and perfect all. Having opponents with different types of weapons and how they use them is the only way to truly practice/understand our weapon.

In previous times such equipment and availability of exchange of arts was not necessairly available. As technology evolved to serve us better we also need to evolve as martial artist and not necessairly stick to traditions that as great as they may be historically and culturally, may not be in touch anymore with combat (at least the practitionners are not in touch with combat).

 

[SgtBarnes]

So does shotokan not train any weapons even at an advanced stage?