Should BJJ include "fast get back up" skill training as shown in the following clips?
Your thought?
Your thought?
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Should BJJ include these thaining?
- Thread starter Kung Fu Wang
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jobo
Grandmaster
are they faster than just getting up? The middle one certainly isnt
MA_Student
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Well not really since Jiu Jitsu is all about fighting on the floor that's literally 90% of what they do. Anyway they do teach ways to get to your feet (sweep your opponent so your on top then you stand up) or how to shrimp out from under them and get back to the feet
One of the principles they seem to hold to is that getting up should be stable enough to use even if you're still in contact with the other guy (so he may try to pull you back down). In some schools, there's an emphasis on having a base when rising. Those quick get-ups aren't consistent with that principle.
I wouldn't teach them, either. It would take more time to learn them than the value they carry, IMO, for most people.
I wouldn't teach them, either. It would take more time to learn them than the value they carry, IMO, for most people.
Danny T
Senior Master
As attribute builders sure, why not. As something to be in the system as a requirement for advancement no.
OP
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- #8
If you can still do this when you are 80 years old, your health is good (not the falling but the get up).
drop bear
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Well considering that would cripple my old body. Yeah.
Charlemagne
Black Belt
Jiu-Jitsu academies that are interested in self defense typically teach students to stand up in base on day one, and then drill that over and over again. If done properly, one can easily time kicks from it, creating the space to stand up without getting your face punched in. The videos above, while acrobatic and interesting, do not strike me as something that is going to work when someone is advancing on you with bad intention, let alone coming from an angle rather than straight on.
No thanks.
No thanks.
BJJ get ups are predicated on the notion that someone either has hold of you trying to keep you down or else is standing close ready to strike you as you get up. You need to maintain your base, maintain awareness of the opponent, and protect against being hit or being dragged back down. If this doesn't apply, then you can get up any old way you want and it doesn't matter.
As far as your clips go:
1) Popping straight up to the feet from a front breakfall position. We don't train this so much as an official technique, but the movement is included in some of our drills and it's easy to do. Doesn't really work if someone is holding you down and it doesn't protect against strikes, but it has applications in quickly recovering from a sprawl or a slip.
2) The kip-up is fun to do and a cool agility drill, but it fails all the technical requirements for a BJJ get up. You can't do it while someone is holding you down. It leaves you wide open for strikes. Finally, it's actually slower than a standard BJJ technical stand up and doesn't give you the option of creating distance.
3) I'll call this the break-dancer get up. Like the kip-up, it's a nice attribute builder. However you can't do it with someone holding you down and it takes longer than the standard BJJ technical stand up. It does offer some protection against strikes in that the windmilling legs might threaten an attacker into backing up, but you have to take your eyes off the opponent, which is a definite weakness.
As far as your clips go:
1) Popping straight up to the feet from a front breakfall position. We don't train this so much as an official technique, but the movement is included in some of our drills and it's easy to do. Doesn't really work if someone is holding you down and it doesn't protect against strikes, but it has applications in quickly recovering from a sprawl or a slip.
2) The kip-up is fun to do and a cool agility drill, but it fails all the technical requirements for a BJJ get up. You can't do it while someone is holding you down. It leaves you wide open for strikes. Finally, it's actually slower than a standard BJJ technical stand up and doesn't give you the option of creating distance.
3) I'll call this the break-dancer get up. Like the kip-up, it's a nice attribute builder. However you can't do it with someone holding you down and it takes longer than the standard BJJ technical stand up. It does offer some protection against strikes in that the windmilling legs might threaten an attacker into backing up, but you have to take your eyes off the opponent, which is a definite weakness.
oftheherd1
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I don't what is starting his break fall, but in the Hapkido I learned, we would turn our head to one side if our break fall was going to be straight down on our front. That prevented the likelihood of hitting our face on the ground, and allowed us to have our arms straighter to prevent breaking a wrist. Also, we would try to put our toes down first rather than the side of the feet.
All that said, he seems to be making it work, and doing it with no problems. Especially the last one; the only thing would be to try and get the hands and feet down sooner to try and prevent the side from hitting the ground as hard. But again, he is making it work, and I am not sure he could have protected himself any better given the speed of turning.
If I could do those at 80 years old? Not in my dreams.
All that said, he seems to be making it work, and doing it with no problems. Especially the last one; the only thing would be to try and get the hands and feet down sooner to try and prevent the side from hitting the ground as hard. But again, he is making it work, and I am not sure he could have protected himself any better given the speed of turning.
If I could do those at 80 years old? Not in my dreams.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #14
All "get up skills" have to deal with that issue.
Sometime
- your opponent throws you, he doesn't go down with you, and he lost his grips on you, if you can get back up fast, you will have better chance to fight back.
- you throw your opponent, you lose your balance, and go down with him, if you don't want to play the ground game with him, to be able to get back up is also helpful.
Danny T
Senior Master
Absolutely and there are other effective ways to get back up that do not require near as much expenditure of energy, flexibility, or movement.
As I stated prior those are good attribute building and depending upon factors such as age and/or injuries those methods of getting up may well be unrealistic.
OP
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- #16
In addition, he's standing up with a narrow base and facing away from his opponent. It would be easy to hit him or take him back down as he gets up.
drop bear
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oftheherd1
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I agree with both of you, but I think this looks more like a demonstration of a throw more that sparring. At least the break fall seems better that the first ones posted. And given the way he was taken down, I don't know how he had time to do a break fall by rotating all the way around.
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