shotokan wrong idea

[lonecoyote]

I think from what I've read here and elsewhere that I may have gotten the wrong idea about shotokan. I studied at a dojo for a few months that said they were Shotokan ,Even had a big wall mural that said Shotokan , shut down now, and from what I've read, and heard, we did shotokan karate completely different, and I'm not sure correctly. Lots of spinning kicks, jumping kicks, heck, flying side, jump spin crescent, and when we sparred we were told to concentrate on kicks, don't rush in , and don't block. To be honest, I wasn't really into it, very little punching and not real practical. I think Ive learned the katas fairly correctly (taikyokus and heians) but from what I've read we didn't really do Shotokan. Is this true? Is this a problem? or do I have the wrong idea and shotokan is supposed to be taught the way that dojo taught it?

 

[jeffbeish]

A purest may see several of the karate mush differently than someone who just drops in on a particular school. From what I remember of shotokan it is a hard style, Goju-ryu too in ways, as opposed to the first school I learned on Okinawa. The first few kata appeared to me nearly the same. Shotokan was introduced to Japan via Okinawa and it must have been changed from the original. Since leaving Okinawa/Japan 45 years ago I met several Shotokan people and they had similar thought about the differences as me.

 

[mcjon77]

.... we did shotokan karate completely different, and I'm not sure correctly. Lots of spinning kicks, jumping kicks, heck, flying side, jump spin crescent, and when we sparred we were told to concentrate on kicks, don't rush in , and don't block.....

I did shotokan at a very traditional school for about a year and went to a few Shotokan only tournaments (at least I think they were Shotokan only). What you are describing sounds ALOT more like Tae Kwon Do than Shotokan. In Shotokan, our primary strike was the reverse punch. There may have been a flying side kick, I think, but the lower belts certainly didn't practice it. When we sparred we focused on landing the reverse punch. There was a HUGE emphasis on proper form.

Now, I heard from my sensei that one of the styles of Tae Kwon Do, Song Moo Kwan, is almost identical to shotokan, except their stances are higher and they have some of the TKD spinning kicks (also, I think they do more contact in their sparring) so you MIGHT have been at that type of school. However, I can be pretty secure in saying that you weren't at a JKA (Japan Karate Association) Shotokan school.

Jon

P.S. Some people rip on Shotokan because of its overly formal nature, use of kata, lack of full contact sparring, etc, but I personally thoroughly enjoyed my short experience training in it.

 

[lonecoyote]

That's kind of what I had heard and read from others, Jon, more like TKD (nothing against TKD, may take some classes, as its the only MA in my area for at least 100 mi in any direction) Traditional Shotokan sure sounds cool though. How would I know if I was studying more traditional stuff? What questions would I ask? Thing is, I think the school used the name Shotokan in a kind of Generic way, like American Karate. Only thing traditional was the kata.

 

[Andrew Green]

50 years ago TKD was Shotokan, and it has since moved its own way.

Not to long ago TKD was often refered to as "Korean Karate"

Does the name really matter that much? You did what you did, who cares what they called it.

All arts change and evolve, Shotokan today is not what it was 80 years ago. Should it still be called Shotokan? Does it matter?

Some say the name identifies the stylistic nature of the school, but often you'll find what it really has to do with is lineage. Some will say that is wrong, others will say that it is showing respect to where they came from even though what they are doing has changed from what they where taught.

 

[Shogun]

It is very hard to find a traditional "waving pine hall" dojo anymore. Nowadays (what am I saying, Im 19) dojos and Shotokan in general has gone the Way of flash and tourneys. huh? go figure.

 

[Shogun]

There is maybe 1 out of 15-20 schools in my area that teach the traditional aspects of Karate. Damn you UFC! jk. I love UFC.

 

[RRouuselot]

I think from what I've read here and elsewhere that I may have gotten the wrong idea about shotokan. I studied at a dojo for a few months that said they were Shotokan ,Even had a big wall mural that said Shotokan , shut down now, and from what I've read, and heard, we did shotokan karate completely different, and I'm not sure correctly. Lots of spinning kicks, jumping kicks, heck, flying side, jump spin crescent, and when we sparred we were told to concentrate on kicks, don't rush in , and don't block. To be honest, I wasn't really into it, very little punching and not real practical. I think Ive learned the katas fairly correctly (taikyokus and heians) but from what I've read we didn't really do Shotokan. Is this true? Is this a problem? or do I have the wrong idea and shotokan is supposed to be taught the way that dojo taught it?

I have been to all the "Honbu dojo" (due to a riff there has been a split in the system) here in Japan.
3 dojo call themselves the Honbu for Shotokan but actually teach JKA karate.....something qite different and newer than what Funakoshi taught.
Then there is one that has got the publishing rights to Karate do kyohan and Nyumon...2 of Funakoshi's books. You can see their photos in the book. They claim to be the one and only "true" shotokan Honbu dojo....but in actual fact they suck, they are arrogant, their karate is weak and I would never send anyone to train there.
Another one calls itself Shotokai which is similar to what Funakoshi taught.
I had one of their 6th dans as a student for a while.

 

[RRouuselot]

50 years ago TKD was Shotokan, and it has since moved its own way.

Not to long ago TKD was often refered to as "Korean Karate"

Does the name really matter that much? You did what you did, who cares what they called it.

All arts change and evolve, Shotokan today is not what it was 80 years ago. Should it still be called Shotokan? Does it matter?

Some say the name identifies the stylistic nature of the school, but often you'll find what it really has to do with is lineage. Some will say that is wrong, others will say that it is showing respect to where they came from even though what they are doing has changed from what they where taught.

True, but do they change for the better? Do they improve or do they digress?
I would say most of what has "evolved" in traditional MAs has actually taken away from them and not improved them. As a result we have McDojos popping up everywhere.

You ask "Does it matter?" It does to me.

 

[kishoto]

most styles have been influnesed by other styles as for the jumping and spinning these are a part of shotokan just not as elaborate as tkd. some instructors go to the extreme on flashy moves. myself i incorperate jujitsu into my black belts training but never to my kyu ranks. best adice is to get a good understanding of one style then explore others

 

[Grenadier]

It doesn't sound like a Shotokan Karate dojo.

Shotokan Karate does not emphasize high kicking, and especially does not place an emphasis on jumping and spinning kicks, although some of each type are occasionally practiced.

I'm guessing that you either had someone who was trying to inject another martial arts system into what was previously a Shotokan school, or perhaps the owner was misrepresenting the school by calling it "Karate." As mcjon77 stated, it does not follow the protocol set forth by the JKA. It's also pretty much far away from other Shotokan practitioners' methods, such as Kanazawa.

I've noticed that a lot of Tae Kwon Do schools in my area advertise with the name "Karate" in their school, and even print it boldly in their advertisements.

 

[arnisador]

Lots of spinning kicks, jumping kicks, heck, flying side, jump spin crescent, and when we sparred we were told to concentrate on kicks, don't rush in , and don't block.

That doesn't sound like Shotokan, if those were the things emphasized.

 

[JAMJTX]

This is not Shotokan.

 

[eyebeams]

It probably *is* shotokan with a freestyle layer added. Shotokan is a very common base for freestyle karate.

 

[arnisador]

Shotokan is a very common base for freestyle karate.

Good point. Because of its popularity, it has indeed been the base for many other arts, including forms of freestyle karate. This is a possibility. It fits with the forms being right but the practice having been modified as indicated.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Shotokan was not a learned system the systems that Funakoski learned were Okinawan. I am not positive on which systems but I believe it was a blend of Naha-Te and Shuri-Te. Shoto was Funakoshi's Pen name and Kan maning school his students named the system Shotokan. But it did not have a lot of jumping and spinning kicks. Its original form from what my research has shown is it was very much Okinawan karate taught on mainland Japan. The deeper stances and all came much later.

 

[karateka]

I think from what I've read here and elsewhere that I may have gotten the wrong idea about shotokan. I studied at a dojo for a few months that said they were Shotokan ,Even had a big wall mural that said Shotokan , shut down now, and from what I've read, and heard, we did shotokan karate completely different, and I'm not sure correctly. Lots of spinning kicks, jumping kicks, heck, flying side, jump spin crescent, and when we sparred we were told to concentrate on kicks, don't rush in , and don't block. To be honest, I wasn't really into it, very little punching and not real practical. I think Ive learned the katas fairly correctly (taikyokus and heians) but from what I've read we didn't really do Shotokan. Is this true? Is this a problem? or do I have the wrong idea and shotokan is supposed to be taught the way that dojo taught it?

this is most definitly not the teachings of shotokan and are quite possibly taekwondo, many have noted thier lack of arm use and exessive leg use.

 

[Brown Belt]

For self-defense and training practice using Shotokan karate for a front stance: can both feet, both knees, both legs, and the upper body including the head, be pointing directly straight forward in a full front facing posture while momentarily standing still and doing an outward chest level or higher level hard block with one hand and forearm or with both hands and forearms at the same time?

 

[kailat]

Hello, let me see if i can shed some helpful light here. I've been in the same dilema.

Here in my city in INDIANA we are a primary what is called "AMERICAN KARATE or American Tae Kwon Do" as its been referred to as. However, just recently the name amongst us all was Korean Karate.. Here's how all this got confused... To many Karate and TKD are the same elemental system.... The only thing that really seperated them was the "terminology and the kata"
My system was a hybrid teaching Japanese terminology, Pinan kata (shotokan forms if im correct) and Naihanchi-Bassai sho forms..now included in those we also done TKD fancy kicks, ie. spinning jump kicks, flying side kicks, axe type kicks etc... and to top it all off we would learn forms like Chongi ( a TKD Form) as well as Dosan(another tkd form).

how or why these forms were thrown into themix w the pinan forms i still dont' know.. and no one can answer it.

They claim we have (my particular system) has roots to SHOTOKAN Karate due to the Pinan forms however, we do nothing alike the shotokan lineage. Now our Head GM 10th dan is GM Phillip Koepell of the USKK who is a Shorei ryu styleist. so were all ate up...LOL..nonetheless many good fighters were transformed from this style in teh early 70s and 80's and even the 90's back in the good ol PKA / USKA days..
ie. GLenn Keeney, Ron White, Ross Scott (hvy wght kickboxing champ), John Manly, and also came George Sheridan (delaware county sheriff), Robert bowles (ft. wayne) now turned Shurie Ryu i believe under Master Koepell.. many have went on to seperate paths and others have stayed... i refuse to call what i do neither Karate nor TKD.. i think the term Korean Karate best suites what we do..Or i term it American Freestyle Karate...however my Sensei calls it American TKD (which I despise) and he just can't understand it..LOL...but its not really where my heart is anymore im more along the paths of the Filipino Arts and have stayed within this system only for my son to get exposure and earn his Black Belt.. after that he will move on w/ me and we'll put these years behind us...The politics have just ran the martial arts in this town to pieces literally causing bad bloood amongst instructors and between schools and students and the tournaments have went to hell. Im just about ready to give it up soon..time to move on. but anyway.. this is what it sounds like in a nutshell. you may have been in a branch of one of these subsystem schools. If its in the midwest its very likely.. as at one time these were the only schools that taught karate around here..

 

[twendkata71]

I thought that Master Koepple was now a Matsumura Shorin ryu stylist primarily. His past is in the Shorei ryu, but now teaches Shorin ryu. He changed over when he started training with Yakuchi Kudo of Matsumura Shorin ryu. He has several stylist in his organization.
Master Bowles was a student of John Panchivas of Shuri ryu, he may have also studied with Master Koepple, but states that his primary instructor was John Panchivas and SGM Robert Trias.