Short form 4

[Goldendragon7]

Yea, it was written by Anonymous, not Unknown.

:uhyeah:

 

[KenpoNoChikara]

Short 4, huh? Haven't heard of it, but sounds interesting....

 

[cdhall]

Any comments on how accurate this list is. I noticed it in my notebook recently. I printed this out a few years ago but I have no use for it at present.

http://www.pcwood.com/kenpo/forms/short4notes.html

 

[KenpoNoChikara]

Oooohhhhh......must....print.....list....

Seriously, though I don't think anyone at my dojo has done a short 4, but I'd really like to learn it... Time to start practicing
If anyone has any pointers for an inexperienced ma (aka:me) on this, please share, I could use all the help i can get

Respectfully, kenponochikara

 

[cdhall]

Spoon!
:ultracool

 

[jfarnsworth]

Oooohhhhh......must....print.....list....

Sitting here trying to think of this visually it seems pretty tough without an instructor stepping you through the form. If that is in fact the correct directions on how the form works the transitions seem a bit tough. At least that's my opinion. :asian:

 

[ikenpo]

I've seen a version where it was done entirely on the right side only....

jb

 

[jfarnsworth]

I've seen a version where it was done entirely on the right side only...

Should I dare even ask if they practiced the form on the opposite side? :idunno:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Should I dare even ask if they practiced the form on the opposite side? :idunno:

Well, if you are one of my students...... you would know what the answer is for my requirements.
:ultracool

 

[jfarnsworth]

Well, if you are one of my students...... you would know what the answer is for my requirements.

:uhyeah: I already know the answer.

I thought I was going to begin to see WWIII

 

[kenpo3631]

Why, why, why, would you practice Short Form Four on the left side? If you are going to do that, why don't you just practice Long Form Four and do both sides in the same form. Hey that's in a way like economy of motion

 

[Goldendragon7]

Why, why, why, would you practice Short Form Four on the left side? If you are going to do that, why don't you just practice Long Form Four and do both sides in the same form. Hey that's in a way like economy of motion

I am curious if you feel this way about short form 3 as well?

:idunno:

 

[bzarnett]

Why, why, why, would you practice Short Form Four on the left side? If you are going to do that, why don't you just practice Long Form Four and do both sides in the same form. Hey that's in a way like economy of motion

So what is your definition of economy of motion then?:idunno:

 

[kenpo3631]

The way I understand the forms is that they build upon each other. 1's & 2's are Basic & Excercise Forms and the 3's 4, 5, & 6 are like Encyclopedia Forms, highlighting certain aspects I.e. Long 5 shows you takedowns.
If you do Long Form 4 then don't you do both sides of the form? and wouldn't the same go for Long Form 3 and so on?
My point is this, what new ideas or motion are you learning by doing Short Form Four? Better yet if the forms build on one another then why didn't Mr. Parker include it in the syllabus of Kenpo and why is it being taught after Long Four as it is so customarily taught?

 

[Goldendragon7]

My point is this, what new ideas or motion are you learning by doing Short Form Four?

You still didn't answer my question earlier on short 3, isn't that the same as doing short form 4? What are you learning by doing short Form 3 only on one side?

Better yet if the forms build on one another then why didn't Mr. Parker include it in the syllabus of Kenpo and why is it being taught after Long Four as it is so customarily taught?

In the same vain.... why did Mr. Parker only teach one side of Short From # 3 then?

If it has no merit as you suggest.... then why did Mr. Parker teach short form 4 to anyone..... after all it was he himself that brought it up and revealed it in the first place.

:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

You still didn't answer my question earlier on short 3, isn't that the same as doing short form 4? What are you learning by doing short Form 3 only on one side?

Oh mighty Goldendragon...did you not read my post? All I want to know is what if anything new would you gain from doing short form four on the left side besides ambideterity? Did you not learn what Long Form Four had to teach while learning it, what other info can an abbreviated version of this form teach? I also posted that the forms build upon each other. If this is true, why did EPK Sr. not teach it before Long Four? Mr. Parker was very methodical as you well know and for him to do this just seems too far out of character for him don't you think? The "commercial" art was devised to follow a regimented pattern for the students to follow, to teach Short Four after Long Four is not logical or sequential. As an aside - I have also heard of people asking him about why there was no short four or five and that he created them later to quell the masses so to speak. As far as short three on the left don't you pick up the left side of the motion when you do Long Form 3?

 

[Goldendragon7]

Oh mighty Goldendragon...did you not read my post?

Well, I don't know about the "Oh Mighty" business, but yes I did read your post but am not a code talker.

All I want to know is what if anything new would you gain from doing short form four on the left side besides ambideterity?

Do you mean "ambidexterity"? I can't answer you on that one.... I don't know what you know or don't know or if you would gain anything from it.:idunno:

Did you not learn what Long Form Four had to teach while learning it, what other info can an abbreviated version of this form teach?

Geeze, now that you ask me that, I'm not sure I did learn all of what it had to teach, I would however, look forward to you someday sharing what you learned so I can compare notes.

I also posted that the forms build upon each other.

I would agree with that.

If the forms do build upon each other, why did EPK Sr. not teach it before Long Four?

It is taught as an "option" not a mandatory part of the normal syllabus or curriculums from my recollection.

Mr. Parker was very methodical as you well know and for him to do this just seems too far out of character for him don't you think?

Well thank you Lance, yes I did know him quite well, (still wish I would have had even more time with him), and no it was not out of character.... he made updates or changes all the time when he found value in something that might help someone in HIS system.

The "commercial" art was devised to follow a regimented pattern for the students to follow, to teach Short Four after Long Four is not logical or sequential.

If you say so...... maybe he just screwed up or something and forgot to call you and ask ~ after all Ed Parker was the one that revealed it in the first place at the time and place of HIS choosing..... I never try to second guess him myself.

I have heard of people asking him about why there was no short four or five and that he created them later to quell the masses so to speak.

Well then, there ya go. You have the answer.

As far as short three on the left don't you pick up the left side of the motion when you do Long Form 3?

Do you? Hmmmmmm, seems to me only "some" of the movements/techniques are done on the left but not ALL in Long Form 3, but then I would like you to share with me your views and understandings on this. I would be interested.

:ultracool

 

[parkerkarate]

I think short form three is just the easy way of getting people ready for the harder forms with techniques such as Long Form 5 and 6.

 

[kenpo3631]

Wow! Please pass the tums, me thinks there was too much sarcasm on this plate.

GD take it easy big fella. The premise of my post was to raise the question as to why Short Form Four is even practiced. I will never claim to know it all about anything in Kenpo however I feel some valid questions are raised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenpo3631
Did you not learn what Long Form Four had to teach while learning it, what other info can an abbreviated version of this form teach?

Geeze, now that you ask me that, I'm not sure I did learn all of what it had to teach, I would however, look forward to you someday sharing what you learned so I can compare notes

.

I am far from learning everything there is to know about Long Four too and would love to see your notes on the form, I am sure I would learn more about it. My point in my state ment stands as is ~ What will an abbreviated version of the form that you already know teach you as far as theories, principles, movement, timing, etc.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenpo3631
If the forms do build upon each other, why did EPK Sr. not teach it before Long Four?

It is taught as an "option" not a mandatory part of the normal syllabus or curriculums from my recollection.

"Option" for what :idunno: For doing Long Four? I don't understand the option thing except as in the case of using it as a tounament form instead of Long Four where your back will be turned to the judges for half of the form, especially when those who had no knowledge of the Parker Kenpo forms were judging you. So, GD what option?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenpo3631
Mr. Parker was very methodical as you well know and for him to do this just seems too far out of character for him don't you think?


Well thank you Lance, yes I did know him quite well, (still wish I would have had even more time with him), and no it was not out of character.... he made updates or changes all the time when he found value in something that might help someone in HIS system.

Yes, no doubt I am sure he did make updates and changes all the time, I remember having to explain why structures where changing to the under belts while I was teaching for my original instructor in the late 80's & early 90's. What other values are there to Short Form Four other than it being somewhat easier to learn than Long Four? Besides that, didn't the premiere of Short Form Four come out long after Long Form Four was already established and set as the "standard" form for whatever belt level it was required for at the time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenpo3631
The "commercial" art was devised to follow a regimented pattern for the students to follow, to teach Short Four after Long Four is not logical or sequential.


If you say so...... maybe he just screwed up or something and forgot to call you and ask ~ after all Ed Parker was the one that revealed it in the first place at the time and place of HIS choosing..... I never try to second guess him myself.

It's not what I say sir. I know from talking to his students that yes Mr. Parker sometimes did things out of the ordinary but to say that the "commercialized" version of Ed Parker's Kenpo System, as it is referred to sometimes, is NOT regimented. That there is no structured pattern for students to follow as a guide? Heck it has a syllabus! You stated yourself that the form was an "optional" form and we all know Mr. Parker premeired Short Four long after Long Form Four was the "standard". The question is why did he do it? Also sir, if you never questioned his reasoning sir, then shame on you. Isn't that what he wanted, to have us be independent thinkers and ask "why"?

Mr. Conatser do not be offended by what I am asking, I am just putting forth my objective opinion for discussion. :asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

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