Shorinjin Saito-Ryu Ninjitsu

[Don Roley]

http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004&L=iaido-l&T=0&F=&S=&P=17829

"
I met Mark Saito about 15 years ago, when I was a grad student in
California. He's a very impressive guy and a clearly talented martial
artist. At the time, he told me that he used the name "ninjitsu" only as a
kind of marketing tool (this was the height of the Stephen Hayes-led ninja
boom), but that the art he taught had nothing to do with ninja; it was just
a defensive art for Japanese peasants. This is somewhat different from
what the web page now claims."

Well, if you follow the link it seems that not only is the school not ninjutsu, but the name and such is bogus. It is kind of what a lot of us have been saying for a long time. This art was put together in the 20th century. He does not seem to have been taught a family art. He instead took a little of this, a little of that and knowingly lied about where it came from. Ninjutsu sold and so he made up a story about it. Not someone I would trust or learn with even if I had not heard about the incident between him and Donn Angier.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

It is amazing to me why someone would want to put the title Ninjutsu/Ninjitsu on an art they have created. Particularly when they have no ties to Japan or to Budo Taijutsu. (it can only come back to haunt them in the future) Simply amazing. Maybe I am
just dense regarding this issue.

 

[shinobi_ashton]

I agree with brian, it is pointless to say your a "master" of an art you know nothing about by demonstrating wushu or karate and calling it ninjutsu.

 

[TheGooch]

It's amazing how many people attack other styles, just because "proof" isn't provided as to the history. The fact is, no one owes anyone else an explanation on history. Many of you talked trash about Saito but I didn't read one post from someone who dared to meet with him and test his skill. Even your beloved Hatsumi has made many dubious claims, disputed by other so-called "masters", yet you would bow to his nutsack at the drop of a hat. The shameless and assinine attacks against Saito reveal nothing but petty jealousy and insecurity.

 

[kaizasosei]

perhaps you are right about some of the 'attacks' you mention. however, i find that you too are quite rude.

ok, so there is a dispute. so how can it be settled?
use your brain. either try to establish proof by showing something actualy worthwhile. if you would care to see how much superficial as well as excellent socalled ninjutsu practices there are out there, you would begin to realize the boring and irrelevant nature of the information you share..nothing new really. done that. been there

if it's so great then why is everyone less than convinced. don't think that it's because you are a fake...that's not it. it's because the information you give is practically ****ing insignificant. mechakuchatsumaranzouu!! in japanese it's plain boring. so if you come up with something better, i'm sure you will find many open minds.
yeah i have a tengu sword too. only it's tentimes the size of yours. and unless you can throw that dinky thing-(in which case you'd stand one single very slim chance), the very sight of my blade would cause you to bow.

why doesn't somebody organize some competitions between the various schools. fake and real alike. then you can put your money where your mouth is, you dumbass -in your own words-'keyboard warrior'.





j

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

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[kaizasosei]

ok, sorry for my childish rudeness.

just wanted to add. as far as i know, it's called shorinji not shorinjin.
ji meaning temple-like in japan there is an art called shorinji kempo.

少林寺

shorinjin sounds no right. like sho ninjin or no rinjin.

 

[johnny5]

Hello everyone! I'm new here and am located in San Diego and was curious about this art as well, as I happened upon the TAFM.com website while searching for a dojo in the area. Don't know if it applies or is legit, just thought I'd throw it out there.

Shorinjin Ryu Saito Koga Ninjutsu; a Yamabushi based system, meaning it has a strong tie to the Chinese based Lin Qui (The Lin Kuei of Mortal Kombat are based on this clan), which is why there are a lot of Chinese concepts in the art. This art is currently taught by Shannon Kawika Phelps.

It is listed under the Kōga-ryū article in Wikipedia

 

[Obi Wan Shinobi]

Alrighty then........

 

[Kreth]

Shorinjin Ryu Saito Koga Ninjutsu; a Yamabushi based system, meaning it has a strong tie to the Chinese based Lin Qui (The Lin Kuei of Mortal Kombat are based on this clan),

The fact that they reference a video game should be a red flag. Phelps' ninjutsu is not legit and has been discussed here previously.

 

[Obi Wan Shinobi]

Well according to their website they claim to most almost all of the different Japanese martial arts along with something they refer to as "Bloodline Ninjitsu" makes you wonder though....if I'm not in the bloodline then why would they teach it to outsiders and still refer to it as "Bloodline" I guess blood isn't thicker than water.....LOL I'm sorry I just had to throw that in there.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Dear Johnny5

From the accounts I have read regarding Yamabushi they do not practice Ninjutsu. Though they are skilled in the usage of weapons which can be seen in Kagura note worthy the Dake school I doubt it has much to do with Ninjutsu.

I am unsure what you mean by Chinese concepts because Shugendo does use Onmyodo into the mixture but that comes from Taoist sects.

Also as pointed out already Shorinjin is incorrect or sounds strange.
And I as far as I know there is no connection between Shaolin and the Shugendo sects of Japan.

If Saito can prove its claim with scrolls and a source that can be verified from Japan than maybe there is something. But through out this thread There has been no proof and in fact proof that shows it is not legit lol.

 

[Obi Wan Shinobi]

Well according to their website they claim that their art was made by the "peasant" class and therefore they didn't keep scrolls or records of the art. So I guess it boils down to the individual person if they are wiling to committ years of training to this style.

 

[SageGhost83]

Whoa! This thread is *still* going!? Me gods, now I see why Don Roley cancelled his account :roflmao:. Ok, joking aside, I don't think that Shorinji Saito-ryu Ninjitsu is an actual Japanese Bujutsu that can be traced back to feudal Japan. I think that perhaps it is a modern, hybrid eclectic system that was inspired by Ninjutsu...Or by Ninjers :lfaookay, that was the last joke, seriously). I am not going to bash it and say that it is crap, if it works for you then by all means go ahead. However, be mindful that it is not connected to the authentic traditions of the Shinobi-no-mono clans of feudal Japan unless you can produce, at the very least, old densho or makimono that prove otherwise.

 

[Obi Wan Shinobi]

Whoa! This thread is *still* going!? Me gods, now I see why Don Roley cancelled his account :roflmao:. Ok, joking aside, I don't think that Shorinji Saito-ryu Ninjitsu is an actual Japanese Bujutsu that can be traced back to feudal Japan. I think that perhaps it is a modern, hybrid eclectic system that was inspired by Ninjutsu...Or by Ninjers :lfaookay, that was the last joke, seriously). I am not going to bash it and say that it is crap, if it works for you then by all means go ahead. However, be mindful that it is not connected to the authentic traditions of the Shinobi-no-mono clans of feudal Japan unless you can produce, at the very least, old densho or makimono that prove otherwise.

Well put SageGhost I couldn't agree with you more. :asian:

 

[vasiljevic]

Very nice Chris,

But where is the proof that Mark Saito sr learned the art he claims he did from his family? I am talking about independently, verifiable proof. It would seem that all you posted should be predicated with the words, "according to what Mark Saito sr says."

Asstated, there is nothing in any Japanese source that I can find to back up wha tyou say. Can you point me in the direction of such a source? I am sure you were not witness to almost anything you wrote, can you give us some sources that we can check for ourselves?

After all the problems with the story so far, it just seems wise to check for ourselves. You say that Saito's grandfatehr gave him permission in 1966 to teach the art, and he died that same year. Can you give physically verifiable proof that the events happend as you say they did?

Again, there are problems with the Japanese used, the consistency of the story, the history is bizarre and people like Wayne Muromoto have said they believe the art was made up by Saito. based on all that, we would like to see some proof for oursleves.

Hello,

If you want proof come to Saito school in Scottsdale Arizona, I am student of Master Maui Saito, currently black belt+

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi,

Couple of things. You're replying to a comment on a 14 year old thread… answering a post from 12 years ago… from someone who hasn't been a member for nearly a decade… and, while we don't fraud bust here, I will say that any evidence for this art having any history or lineage prior to the emergence of Mark Saito's odd and frankly highly questionable claims would have to be extraordinary… mainly as there is no record, no evidence, no indication, no implication, no support, and no connection for anything like this in all Japanese history and historical records. Combine that with the incredibly non-Japanese methods and the myriad issues within the claims of the system (and it's history) itself, and, well… you're going to have a tough time convincing anyone who has half a clue about Japanese arts of any credibility there.

In other words, there's no point visiting a school simply to confirm what has been well known for years.

 

[elder999]

Hello,

If you want proof come to Saito school in Scottsdale Arizona, I am student of Master Maui Saito, currently black belt+

Alexander Yaeger Calu, 'zat you?

 

[killer]

I love this system of martial arts system. I have done Wing Chun/tsun escrima,etc…..I am happiest w/ saito ninjutsu over all other styles it is the original JKD, just like all ninjutsu(they use what is useful). Master Maui Saito is the innovator (as are all ninja). they took everything they found useful of everything they encountered and made it their own, bloodline ninjutsu is the truest form of martial arts. they evaluate a system, and find ways of meling it to fit together.

 

[Flying Crane]

I love this system of martial arts system. I have done Wing Chun/tsun escrima,etc…..I am happiest w/ saito ninjutsu over all other styles it is the original JKD, just like all ninjutsu(they use what is useful). Master Maui Saito is the innovator (as are all ninja). they took everything they found useful of everything they encountered and made it their own, bloodline ninjutsu is the truest form of martial arts. they evaluate a system, and find ways of meling it to fit together.

How do they go about evaluating a system?