Shorin and Goju.

[Mike Clarke]

Michael,

I take it that's a yes then?

Mike.

 

[GojuBujin]

Osu,

I'll be emailing the address to you in the next few days. Thanks!

Michael C. Byrd
http://www.inigmasoft.com/goyukai

 

[Mike Clarke]

"No worries"!

 

[Dave Fulton]

Originally posted by GojuBujin
Osu,

I suppose you mean me? (Michael)

Yes, Sensei Hobbs very amazing individual it's like living 50 miles away from a Samurai Warrior.

He is Colonel in the United States Aiforce. Highly ranked in Jujutsu and Iiado as well. It's so hard to drag those things out of him. He is, but he doesn't want you to know kind of thing. very very humble.

Michael C. Byrd
http://www.inigmasoft.com/goyukai

Hello Mr. Byrd,

Please give my regards to Sensei Hobbs. He was my sensei (gave me my dan grades in Shorin-ryu and Goju-ryu). I lost track of him several years ago. I would be interested in corresponding with him via e-mail, if he is also interested. Please let me know.

Best regards,

Dave Fulton

 

[GojuBujin]

Osu,

Please email me [email protected] and i will be more than happy to give you Sensei Hobbs Email Address

Michael C. Byrd
http://www.inigmasoft.com/goyukai

 

[SRyuFighter]

I take Seibukan Shorinryu Karate. And it is a pretty hard style. There is very little softness involved.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by SRyuFighter
I take Seibukan Shorinryu Karate. And it is a pretty hard style. There is very little softness involved.

You do some of the same kata we do and they have "softness" in them.

 

[SRyuFighter]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
You do some of the same kata we do and they have "softness" in them.

That's true but my point was that it's not like Tai Chi or Aikido.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by SRyuFighter
That's true but my point was that it's not like Tai Chi or Aikido.

The actual kata might not be performed like Tai Chi or Aikido however the “tuite” within the kata are performed in a “similar” manner to Aikido and some of the advanced level body movements and strikes are almost identical to TaiChi.

 

[chufeng]

Originally posted by SRyuFighter
That's true but my point was that it's not like Tai Chi or Aikido.

RyuShiKan's point is that you need to stop looking for differences...start looking for similarities and apply those things that are common.

I've seen tons of Aikido in many of the forms I practice (Chinese forms)...

I've seen Naihanchi Shodan movements (and movements from many Okinawan and Japanese karate systems) in our forms, as well...

Many of the movements in forms look like (whatever) but are really (something else)...vary the distance and relationship to your uke and SEE what is right in front of you.

The more you train and compare, the more you will see how much ALIKE the systems are...the real difference is in the training and in the teaching...those who DON'T understand pass on bad information...but it is still there, in your forms, in your drills...just look for it.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by chufeng

Many of the movements in forms look like (whatever) but are really (something else)...vary the distance and relationship to your uke and SEE what is right in front of you.

Kind of like "omote" and "ura".....................

 

[SRyuFighter]

I know that martial arts are related and have similarities. I don't even know how that came into play here. All that I said was that my style of Karate is more of a hard than a soft style. I'm not trying to classify anything it just simply is what it is.

 

[chufeng]

But, just perhaps, you aren't seeing the soft in the hard...the internal in the external...if you always view your art as a "hard" art, you will miss some very important lessons. Just trying to help.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[SRyuFighter]

I am seeing the soft in the hard. It's just not always there. There is not an extravagant amount of soft is all that I'm saying.

 

[RyuShiKan]

I guess it depends on how people define “soft” and “hard”.
If people are talking about hard = stiff like the JKA/JKF type karate I would say I do a soft style.

If people think of soft like some sort Chi Kung looking art I would say I do a “hard” style.

Some of the techniques involved with our kata (Naihanchi, Kusanku, Passai, Seisan etc..) have what would appear to be soft looking techniques but in reality hurt like bloody hell.

Soft doesn’t equal weak

 

[Mike Clarke]

It's never been clear to me why people refer to their karate as 'hard' or 'soft' ?

Karate as I understand it has both elements at work and the balance shifts depanding on the problem you're trying to solve by the attack that's comming at you. A bit harder here, a little softer there. Above all I think the aim is to balance both these elements in such a way as to 'blend' with the attacker.

A lot easier said than done I know. Never the less, such an approach will mean effective technique once the strength of youth has passed.

Karate really is without styles. They exist more for marketing than anything else as far as I'm concerned. If you have a good understanding of ANY form of legitimate karate, then you will have a good grasp of ANY style.

Sure some groups make more of a point on particular things, but this does not mean those things are not found in other types of karate. For example, throwing is not obvious in karate kata, but there are many types of throw and take-downs in karate kata.
This does not make karate into judo or jujitsu. There are may strikes and kicks in aikido, but this does not make it karate.

Different paths, same mountain. I think it's a mistake to limit ones thinking in to styles. If they [styles] have any value then it is only as fingers pointing to the moon.

What was it Bruce said in Enter the Dragon, oh yeh,
"Don't look at the finger, or you'll miss the moon in all it's hevenly glory."
Well something like that anyway.

Mike.

 

[SRyuFighter]

Good post Mike Clarke. Exactly what I was trying to say.

 

[Sensei Manny]

Actually, the shuri-te development into Shorin-Ryu ( Young Forest Style) was a more speedier and offensive system; while the naha- te development into Goju-Ryu system was more forceful and defensive. Naha-te emphasized more soft techniques and taoist breathing philosophy. Shuri-te is believed to have derived from Shaolin Kenpo. One of the first Shuri-te practitioners was Shinjo Choken in the (late 1600-early 1700's), which started the historical beginnings the of Shorin-Ryu style. Next, considered the first true teacher of okinawan karate was Tode Sakugawa; who's style was a mixture of Chinese Kenpo and Shuri-te. In 1756 Tode Sakugawa became the student of the well known Kenpo Master, Kusanku. Next comes Sakugawa's most noted student of Sokon Matsumura. Sokon Bushi Matsumura studied the teachings of Sakugawa's Shuri-te, Chinese Kenpo, and Kusanku Kenpo mixture; until 1830 when he traveled to China himself to study the Shaolin style of Chinese Kenpo and Weaponry.
So, it can be safely assumed that the Shorin-Ryu System indeed resulted from the Shaolin Chinese Kenpo Style. For Matsumura Seito, this would be the White Crane Style Of Shaolin Chinese Kenpo, of which i'am a Kinshinkan member! This is also evident in the systems kata (though all the styles of Shorin-Ryu, (matsu, ko, and shobayashi) kata are basically the same) of, Hakutsuru/White Crane (which uses the elements taught in the shaolin chinese kenpo system) and stresses using the Crane's Hane/Wing; Chinto, ( which stresses the White Cranes One Legged Stance); and Gojushiho, (or Fifty- Four Steps Of The Black Tiger, which emphaiszes the using of the Cranes Beak and Neck).
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!

Thank you Chiduce for sticking to the facts. I've heard it before that we need to have a line drawn as to what is imagination and what are the facts. "Guilty", I too have a tendancy for rambling personnal belief and / or opinions into the huge digest of martial arts (karate-do).
Imagination or fact, but I have always been of the belief that back in the day, many (most) of the founding Masters trained and shared in a respectful friendship, their learned fighting / self defense systems and / or styles.
Dare I say, no matter what the name of the style is, we all share a common philosophy; Martial Philosophy would be an interesting topic.

 

[chinto]

well the style of shorin ryu i study is really quite soft in a lot of ways. i would say we are 50/50 hard to soft.. our hard blocks are mostly actually soft.

we have a few goju kata and well they seem often harder then ours.

 

[seasoned]

well the style of shorin ryu i study is really quite soft in a lot of ways. i would say we are 50/50 hard to soft.. our hard blocks are mostly actually soft.

we have a few goju kata and well they seem often harder then ours.

The uniqueness of GoJu is sometimes misunderstood. Where it starts out hard from Sanchin, it more then redeems itself with Tensho kata. Most karate-ka never fully understand how the GoJu, “hard/soft relate, and so miss the greatness of the art. :asian: