Shield and Mace

[Maltair]

Here is how we run it at our school, then the question to follow:

1: Step left foot to LNB, right hand does a outward block and left punch to opp kidney.

2: Right hand executes a hammer fist to same kidney while left hand checks shoulder.

3: Right continues circle and rakes the face, Drop into wide knell stance and hit back of opp right knee.

4: Right side kick to opp left knee. Cover out.

Pretty sure that is it.

I was shown 2 ways to get power out of the first left punch, marriage of gravity-Punch as you land the left foot. Or Torque-block and plant at same time, then unwind into the left punch.

Here is the question, Which way do you guys do it? Pro's and Cons'
Me, I like the way of the torque. I don't have a lot of mass to marry into gravity.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Don't forget 'barrowed force' on the first move.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

http://www.ltatum.com/movies/Week32/TipOfTheWeekMedW32.html

 

[Touch Of Death]

Don't forget 'barrowed force' on the first move.

besides the force you carry in a barrow, borrowed force helps too.

 

[Maltair]

How do you get borrowed force from this tech?

And doesn't a barrow help do work? you still have to apply the force yourself to the lever. :0

That tip was cool, I hadn't seen that one yet. I like the part where he is stopping the opp before they have a chance to settle.

 

[Touch Of Death]

you get borrowed force from a commited attack. If it were the least bit practicle, you could have an extended fist waiting for him to run into, and it would hurt the guy provided your right hand was able to expose the ribs.
Sean

 

[Bill Lear]

you get borrowed force from a commited attack. If it were the least bit practicle, you could have an extended fist waiting for him to run into, and it would hurt the guy provided your right hand was able to expose the ribs.
Sean

Kinda the same way ancient warriors would set for charge while using spears against a charging army. :ultracool

Good post!

 

[Shodan]

There's no "both" option.....that's what I would choose.

:asian: :karate:

 

[Kenpo Mama]

There's no "both" option.....that's what I would choose.

:asian: :karate:

Hey Shodan,

I totally agree with you on that one, definitely need that BOTH option. I also have to agree that how that first sequence plays out is based upon the attacker's committed action. If he comes in with a hard committed solid right - then yes i will borrow his force and use the "block settle punch" combo, ah but if he lingers a bit, then i will use my own torquing action to make that left punch a yowzer!

Just my thoughts.

Donna :supcool:

 

[Bill Lear]

There's no "both" option.....that's what I would choose.

:asian: :karate:

Actually, you use all of the following power generators in the first move of Shield and Mace:

1. Borrowed Force
2. Rotational Force
3. Gravitational Marriage
4. Directional Harmony

 

[Kenpo Mama]

Actually, you use all of the following power generators in the first move of Shield and Mace:

1. Borrowed Force
2. Rotational Force
3. Gravitational Marriage
4. Directional Harmony

Okay Bill, that is true, since no one else has really touched on it, could you go into a little more detail on Directional Harmony as exhibited in the opening move of Shield and Mace. Thank you!

Donna:supcool:

 

[Bill Lear]

Okay Bill, that is true, since no one else has really touched on it, could you go into a little more detail on Directional Harmony as exhibited in the opening move of Shield and Mace. Thank you!

Donna:supcool:

Directional Harmony = Having all of your action moving in the same direction.

In Shield and Mace you are stepping forward and at the same time you are rotating your upper body to maximize the forward penetration/momentum of your right punch.

There are several power principles at work in this move. I believe the combined efforts of all of these principles is called CONFLUENCE OF FORCES.

 

[Shodan]

I guess the option I need to look for would be "All that (or both) and a bag of chips" then, eh?!! Ha ha!! Thanks for the info. Bill.

:asian: :karate:

 

[parkerkarate]

I was taught the basic technique like you were taught, but than I figured out ways to add power. I can tell you if yo want?

 

[Touch Of Death]

I was taught the basic technique like you were taught, but than I figured out ways to add power. I can tell you if yo want?

By all means.
Sean

 

[jaybacca72]

you could also do a windmill block with a boxing slip then rotate and strike with the opening blow intead of trying to do every power principle at the same time,just changing the timing. if i were training alone on a heavy bag for increasing my power i would train it slip,low left hook with right hand cover then i would follow with a low straight right,sometimes you just don't have a partner at 11pm when the itch strikes ya.
some variations ie what if's would be cool to hear,i like the extension for this for sure.
later
jay artyon:

 

[Maltair]

I was having problems getting power with the second step. Not the strike but checking the shoulder with the left. I'm not sure if it was becuase my right is coming down and the left is going across, (pat your head and rub your belly sort of thing) or what.
One thing I came up with that seams to work, need to try it on a couple more people) is torqing into the first strike with the left, rotate the hips and torso CCW just a tad, rotate back CW and strike right hammerfist to kidney and left open palm to shoulder, pushing thru and down. This is putting the motion of both arms along the same plane and allowing me to use my hips to add power. Just not sure if it is quick enough yet.

 

[parkerkarate]

I am a pretty small person so I have to figure out ways to hit just as strong as a person such as Mr. Joe Palanzo or Mr. Tom Kelly. So Marriage of Gravity has been a big friend. So when you do the first punch to the kidney think like a boxer. Slip to the punch, there is no need to take a big step out towards the left, take a little step and their punch will pass right by. So step than tourque into the punch and block, it is ok if they spin from that just check their other arm and do something else. From there Marriage of Gravity comes into playas you drop into a close kneel drop that fore-arm strike on their hip. From their check their arm and sliche their eye as taught. Than drop even lower and strike the back of their leg with your chop, Marriage of Gravity. And than kick out their back leg or front if you can not reach teir back.

Now for speed you need to think like a musician, I played an instrument in band throught elementry to high school. Every song has a tempo, it tells you how fast to move. When you first learn techniques you are walking through it step by step to figure it out. After that move a little more fluently. Than from there figure out how fast yo can move and still keep the form of the technique at the same time. So with this technique, you slip your first punch than imediately drop and strike his hip. From there bounce off his hip and slice his eye as you check his arm. Than as fast as you can drop back down strkie the back of his leg and bouce off of that and kick his leg out.

Now if you want the extension just let me know.

Bruce Lee said, "Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless. Like water. Now put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You pour water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. Now water can creep, drip or crash! Be water my friend." Lets put that into karate terms. You can move fluently like Kung-Fu or you can be hard and stern. There are certain parts in techniques that you need to flow and others were you need to "crash". So, "be like water my friend.

 

[Shodan]

Another way to try.......when the punch comes in, step forward to a left close kneel stance as you windmill parry the punch to the outside of the arm (left then right)- right hand stays up, left goes to chamber. Your hips stay forward.......now torque right towards the opponent with your left punch to the mid-section as you go to a horse stance. Torque back to a left close kneel as your right checking hands drops directly down to hammerfist the opponent's right kidney- left hand jump-checks up to the opponent's right arm. Then on to the eye strike, knee strike and kick, etc.

Does that help any? Maybe it's pretty similar to what others wrote......that's how I learned and practice it anyway........

:asian: :karate:

 

[Kenpodoc]

Forgive me if I misunderstand the question. The first L as described above, as I learned it and as Mr. Tatum does it in the video involves tourque, Not marraige of gravity and not borrowed force. Follow the vectors. If the primary energy is downward then marraige of gravity is used (i.e. in the R Hammer fist.) Borrowed force must come in a direction opposing the opponents movement in this case the L would have to strike to 12 o'clock. Because you slip L then turn and punch with your L this by definition must be Torque. Directional harmony is good but not present in the L punch as the R block/check is in place before you turn and punch. A commited attack moves the opponent even closer further decreasing any possible element of borrowed force.

respectfully,

Jeff