Shaolin 5 Animals

[Ninway J]

7*

I read on another Mantis Kung Fu website that internal exercises are done to strengthen the hands instead of striking objects repeatedly. The site mentioned that this is because striking objects makes the hands less sensitive. Do you also do these internal exercises, and would it possibly be similar to a hard-style qi gong such as Iron Shirt?

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Ninway J
7*

I read on another Mantis Kung Fu website that internal exercises are done to strengthen the hands instead of striking objects repeatedly. The site mentioned that this is because striking objects makes the hands less sensitive. Do you also do these internal exercises, and would it possibly be similar to a hard-style qi gong such as Iron Shirt?

Actually, we do traditional Iron body training, which involves starting with sand bags, going to rice, then steel bb's and such. We also use staffs and hard wood, such as a mook jong for arm and leg iron body training. I would imagine they were talking about basically hard qi gong, we do some of that as well, but most of our iron body training is very traditional. Basically what I've seen of the internal "iron body" would be basically liken to Iron shirt. What we do is very similar, but we also do some traditional qi gong. The sensitivity is a big deal in mantis, but we do alot of training on feeling and lots of drills on following and learning to feel.

7sm

7sm

 

[CloudChaser]

your school website is nice, 7sm! i'll keep checking for updated stuff...it's an all mantis school, right? no other northern/southern styles mixed in? and how many demos do you guys do? thanks again for sharing!


i've just been recently introduced to iron shirt and it is an excellent way to build strength, and we also use weights when practicing our forms



here's a link to my school too if anyone's interested:
http://www.lvlohans.com/index.php

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by CloudChaser
your school website is nice, 7sm! i'll keep checking for updated stuff...it's an all mantis school, right? no other northern/southern styles mixed in? and how many demos do you guys do? thanks again for sharing!

i've just been recently introduced to iron shirt and it is an excellent way to build strength, and we also use weights when practicing our forms

here's a link to my school too if anyone's interested:
http://www.lvlohans.com/index.php

Thank you, I liked your schools site as well. Your schools lion dance team must be really good, thats awesome!

My school is straight 7* mantis, however we do get to pick up some other styles forms from my Sifu's sihings and sidai. One of them teaches Hung Gar, a few do some eagle claw, and Wah Lum. A few of our very basic forms are Wah Lum, so you don't get to 7* forms until you have been there a little while. Right now we are trying to build up our demo team, so we only do on average 3 demos a month or so. We are learning some good Lion Dance, so our demo team is a work in progress as well. I love lion dance, I'm just not ready to give up the time training in kung fu to really put the effort into lion dance.

A few of us have gotten some weighted vests for working out in, it really gives your forms a new workout. Of course some of our students use iron rings when working out as well, but most of us just use modern weights.

7sm

 

[CloudChaser]

the school's atmosphere is also very loosely structured with a heavy emphasis on self-motivation... if you want to learn more than what is limited to in practice, you are encouraged to take the initiative and ask... there are no drill sargeant-type instructors here... which can be a good or a bad thing depending on the individual and what they require to help them realize their potential

any thoughts on that?


and oh yeah, 7sm, what weapons do you guys get to learn and when are you allowed to start them?

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by CloudChaser
the school's atmosphere is also very loosely structured with a heavy emphasis on self-motivation... if you want to learn more than what is limited to in practice, you are encouraged to take the initiative and ask... there are no drill sargeant-type instructors here... which can be a good or a bad thing depending on the individual and what they require to help them realize their potential

any thoughts on that?[/Q]

Sounds like our school. Maybe its a kung fu thing, but we are very loosly structured when it comes to motivation. Our classes are structured to keep them moving and such in the beginner and intermediate classes, but sifu does alot of different stuff in the advanced class. We offer private lessons taught by the sihings, so you can get some extra training in if you like as well. We try and support as much outside training as possible. If you just do whats in class, your not doing a whole lot.

Originally posted by CloudChaser
and oh yeah, 7sm, what weapons do you guys get to learn and when are you allowed to start them?

We learn most of the traditional chinese weapons. We start with staff, double daggers, broadsword, we even go to the Sum Gi Kuan, Kuan Do, Cern Sau Do, and of course the flute. Most of the traditional weapons we use.
We have a beginners weapons class which is about 4 or 5 months into your training, but they do not learn forms yet, just basics of handling the staff and broadsword. Mostly drills. Then when you get into the advanced class, you start really training with the weapons learning forms and two man sets as well. It normally takes about 1 1/2 years hard training to make it into advanced class. If your the average joe, probably 2 years.

What weapons do you guys learn? I'm learning the flute right now, and I really enjoy it, its very applicable to other weapons. Its also a pretty dangerous form, as far as the attacker goes.

7sm

 

[CloudChaser]

i'm still working on my staff form... i'm using a chinese waxwood which is fairly light and flexible... what i'm having trouble with is this jumping spinning crescent kick near the end of the form, and i think it's because i'm not getting enough height and momentum... i can't seem to land without stumbling yet...

i've seen other students work with spear, saber, and straight sword... there are many other weapons hanging on the walls of the school that i'm not familiar with though...

the weapons i particularly want to master are the staff and saber! those forms are sooooo awesome to watch, especially the leaping parts!

 

[CloudChaser]

oh yeah, i forgot to ask... what's a flute?

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by CloudChaser
i'm still working on my staff form... i'm using a chinese waxwood which is fairly light and flexible... what i'm having trouble with is this jumping spinning crescent kick near the end of the form, and i think it's because i'm not getting enough height and momentum... i can't seem to land without stumbling yet...

i've seen other students work with spear, saber, and straight sword... there are many other weapons hanging on the walls of the school that i'm not familiar with though...

the weapons i particularly want to master are the staff and saber! those forms are sooooo awesome to watch, especially the leaping parts!

Yeah, I really like our staff forms, I'm kind of a big guy, so staff works well with me. I also love the broadsword forms! I'm learning one now called Yin Ching and it is really hard. Yeah, any jumping spinning kick takes practice to land securly.
How long have you been studying? Did you study anything before?

Originally posted by CloudChaser
oh yeah, i forgot to ask... what's a flute?

Its a small straight musical instrument
Actually, traditionally it is a small bamboo flute, like you would hear in some chinese music. The form is using it like a small pipe or something. Its about a foot long maybe, 2 inches thick. Alot of tmeple strikes as well as groin, back of the knee, and throat strikes. Pretty devastating form. Alot of people laugh when they hear the flute as a weapon, but if you were to do the form with a metal pipe, or somethign really solid, it would be deadly.

7sm

 

[CloudChaser]

the staff is awkward for me since i'm only 5'2", but i like it anyways because it offers me additional length for attack and defense...

i've only trained in shaolin kung fu for a year, but previously, i also took a semester of TKD in college and then, a year of traditionally taught hsing-i... i received a fairly good foundation in the basics, i think...

a bamboo flute, eh? welllll, if a fan can be used as a weapon, then why not a musical instrument! the flute is almost shaped like a claw so i do believe you when you say it can be deadly!

the broadsword is a fearsome-looking weapon, like the japanese katana, right? trust me though, with my 'puny' size and stature, i wouldn't look very intimidating wielding it, ha ha... i'll stick with the slimmer and more agile straight sword, thank-u-very-much!

 

[7starmantis]

Haha, yeah there are certain weapons that look better with diferent people. I'm 6' 2" so some of the smaller weapons (including the flute of course) do not look very intimidating with me holding them either!

7sm

 

[Ninway J]

Originally posted by CloudChaser
i've just been recently introduced to iron shirt and it is an excellent way to build strength, and we also use weights when practicing our forms

Yeah, Iron Shirt is kewl. I don't know about you, but it's difficult for me to do Iron Bar and Iron Bridge for more than a couple minutes. It's amazing, the feeling I get after doing the forms. I kind of feel numb, and stronger. My sifu told me not to do Iron Shirt and taiji at the same time, for now, because it's not good to mix hard and soft styles.

the school's atmosphere is also very loosely structured with a heavy emphasis on self-motivation... if you want to learn more than what is limited to in practice, you are encouraged to take the initiative and ask... there are no drill sargeant-type instructors here... which can be a good or a bad thing depending on the individual and what they require to help them realize their potential

any thoughts on that?

Yeah, it must be a CMA thing. In Taiji class, we go through the whole form once, and then sifu lets us ask questions or choose what part of the form to go over. It seems like we really need to take the initiative to ask questions in order to learn more. A bit different from my past sensei, or what I've seen in Japanese martial arts, for example. In a way, I'd rather be just shown without asking, because I'm used to it, but then again I do have lots of questions to ask all the time, so it's all good.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Ninway J
Yeah, it must be a CMA thing.

You know, I think there is something to that. Most Sifus I know would rather let a student walk out of their door than make them train. If your not training hard, they wont teach you anything. My Sigung has said many times that he would see people go over horse stance for months and months until they were ready to work hard.

7sm

 

[CloudChaser]

sure, it's more rewarding for the teacher when they see the desire to learn, but what about the students who tend to be shy and are afraid to ask? you can't just ignore them, right?

for the staff experts out there, i need advice on figure-8 twirling please! i've found that if you grip with your hands closer together, you can twirl faster but then, your elbows kinda stick out and the staff sometimes whacks you on the side of your thighs... is my technique totally wrong or what???

 

[7starmantis]

Grip the staff a little closer than shoulder length apart. Use your waist to make the "roll". Your staff should almost be touching your rib cage when your waist turns (just your waist) in towards that side, allowing you to complete the flower. (we call them flowers) Your waist has to turn quite a bit on each side to allow the "unwinding" of your arms. The secret to quick, powerful, and correct flowers(figure 8) is all in the waist.

7sm

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by CloudChaser
sure, it's more rewarding for the teacher when they see the desire to learn, but what about the students who tend to be shy and are afraid to ask? you can't just ignore them, right?

Thats very true, and I think that is what makes alot of people quit CMA in general. I honestly do. I think its ahrd to get over a traditional approach, but in today's society, an instructor should make a concerted effort to include everyone, and be aware of each students needs.

Observation is the key.

7sm

 

[CloudChaser]

thanks for the staff tip, 7sm! keeping the staff closer to my rib cage as i'm twirling it really does help! i practiced with a dowel in front of a mirror and there is quite a difference as i'm watching my arm and waist movements! <bows with appreciation>

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by CloudChaser
thanks for the staff tip, 7sm! keeping the staff closer to my rib cage as i'm twirling it really does help! i practiced with a dowel in front of a mirror and there is quite a difference as i'm watching my arm and waist movements! <bows with appreciation>

:asian: Your very welcome! Glad you could benefit from my pain, sweat, and blood!! I'm very blessed to have an amazing sifu who works on every detail with me, so I'm glad I could help out.

7sm

 

[CloudChaser]

in class recently, we've been modifying our basic southern and northern forms into the 5 animal forms... (for example, instead of a straight punch, you'd apply a tiger claw or leopard fist, etc) the difficult part is to visualize becoming that particular animal and move accordingly... the tiger seems to be the "easiest" because of its emphasis on straightforward aggression and raw strength... i like the leopard's speed and agile power, but i haven't been able to capture it quite yet... don't even ask me to demonstrate a snake's suppleness or a crane's gracefulness because my flexibility and coordination leave much to be desired, bleah... i'd love to be able to combine the dragon's ability to be soft yet strong...

sooooooooooo, suggestions anyone? what can you do to better become one with your animal form? watching Nature Planet would probably help, eh? ;D

 

[Ninway J]

Spar with the animal you wish to immitate. :uhyeah:

Believe it or not, if you can come out alive, I think that's the best training ever!

Personally, I learned cat-like reflexes from watching (and causing trouble) to my cat. Try causing trouble to your pet cat and get away without a scratch or bite.