Shadow Techniques

[Gerry Seymour]

There are actually swim coaches that teach how to swim on dry land first. Or teach you how to swim while holding the wall, or on a boogie board.

I don’t understand the utility of the first one. The other two are actually learning footwork first, which is not uncommon.

 

[skribs]

So I've been practicing for my Hapkido testing today, like all the Kata's and stuff. But I was wondering if anyone here can practice their techniques alone. Kind of like shadow boxing, that's why I was calling them shadow techniques. So far I've been able to get the movements down but I don't know if it'll actually work or not... What are your thoughts on this?

I think that Shadow Techniques is good for memorization, but you need to practice on people for application. The good news is this means you can work on your memorization while you're doing shadow techniques, and then focus solely on application when you get together with a partner.

Now, when practicing with a partner, here is how I help them practice (phase by phase):

1. Basically do the technique for them so they know where I'm supposed to go
2. Let them have control so they make me go where I went in phase 1
3. Passively resist them to make sure they have the correct leverage points to continue to do what they did in Phase 2
4. Actively resist them if they mess up so that they can figure out what to do when Phase 3 doesn't work
5. Sparring, experimentation, and variation

By yourself, you can't move past Stage 1 or Stage 2. But sometimes you still need to be there, to help with the muscle memory and memorization of your techniques. Especially in a school like yours or mine, which just says "White Belt #8" instead of "Z Lock".

Another way I've used it is to get myself out of trying to make the darn thing work, and get myself into the mindset of at least memorizing the steps I'm supposed to take in an ideal scenario. I was in a group of 3 and got a lot of critiques on my technique from my Master. After I applied those critiques, I broke off from the group and meditated by myself to ingrain those better into my memory.

I put off practicing the application, because if I focused on making them work, I might only remember one or two things. This way I could remember them all (at least long enough to go home and write them down) and then I could come back next week and apply all of them.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think that Shadow Techniques is good for memorization, but you need to practice on people for application. The good news is this means you can work on your memorization while you're doing shadow techniques, and then focus solely on application when you get together with a partner.

Now, when practicing with a partner, here is how I help them practice (phase by phase):

1. Basically do the technique for them so they know where I'm supposed to go
2. Let them have control so they make me go where I went in phase 1
3. Passively resist them to make sure they have the correct leverage points to continue to do what they did in Phase 2
4. Actively resist them if they mess up so that they can figure out what to do when Phase 3 doesn't work
5. Sparring, experimentation, and variation

By yourself, you can't move past Stage 1 or Stage 2. But sometimes you still need to be there, to help with the muscle memory and memorization of your techniques. Especially in a school like yours or mine, which just says "White Belt #8" instead of "Z Lock".

Another way I've used it is to get myself out of trying to make the darn thing work, and get myself into the mindset of at least memorizing the steps I'm supposed to take in an ideal scenario. I was in a group of 3 and got a lot of critiques on my technique from my Master. After I applied those critiques, I broke off from the group and meditated by myself to ingrain those better into my memory.

I put off practicing the application, because if I focused on making them work, I might only remember one or two things. This way I could remember them all (at least long enough to go home and write them down) and then I could come back next week and apply all of them.

I think backing up in that progression from time to time (as you did in your story) is part of the logical progression. Even when we have high competency at a technique, we'll occasionally want a highly cooperative partner so we can examine variations or nuances in the technique.

 

[skribs]

I think backing up in that progression from time to time (as you did in your story) is part of the logical progression. Even when we have high competency at a technique, we'll occasionally want a highly cooperative partner so we can examine variations or nuances in the technique.

That's why Phase 5 has 3 different options. Those three are done in any order:

• Sparring - Use in a fighting scenario
• Variation - Use in a self defense scenario (i.e. instead of applying Technique #5 from a wrist grab, apply it from a lapel grab or a punch).
• Experimentation - This is where I go back to Phase 2 or 3 and try different things.

But sometimes, yeah, you get critiqued, and need to go back a phase (or several) to apply it.

 

[Gweilo]

I don't know the name of it, but it's from same hand cuff grab. You envelop their hand with your opposite hand, and with the hand that they grabbed you with you position your hand onto their wrist via a circular motion and then press down. I've got it to work a couple times before but it's the one move that's going to drag me down.

Its been a few years since I trained in Hapkido, and quite a few more since yellow belt training, but the name of the wrist hold you discribed is called mirror wrist hold. It is a hold that needs to be practiced with a partner as you needs to get the wrist and elbow angles correct in order to apply the correct amount of pressure on the wrist radius and ulna.

 

[oftheherd1]

1st, as to names of techniques; most I know of in Korean simply say something of the order of 'snap kick to knee" or "snap kick to groin" or "side kick #1" or "side kick #2." So if we in English say "sleeve grab defense #1" it may not be so different.

As to the technique you were trying to describe, it sounds like something where you would begin rotating your wrist under, around and over your opponent's hand as you grab the side of his hand to control it, as you step forward. When you are over the back of his grabbing hand, you snap the hand down, spraining or breaking the wrist. You can let go and get to other opponents or some other control technique against the opponent, such as continuing the grab of the opponent's hand, moving it to the rear of your body as you turn in to the elbow of that hand, striking it with your upper body/ upper arm, to dislocate/break the elbow. Have you been taught the pressure point in the wrist as an alternative to the snap downward?

As to shadow movements, I agree with others that only after you really know the technique well, is it useful in maintaining the movements.

I hope you continue your journey in Hapkido. It is a great art.

 

[skribs]

As to shadow movements, I agree with others that only after you really know the technique well, is it useful in maintaining the movements.

It's also useful for memorizing the gross movement while you are learning it, IMO.

 

[oftheherd1]

It's also useful for memorizing the gross movement while you are learning it, IMO.

That is true as long as no intricate moves are missed along the way and there is difficulty in placing them in the proper place. But in general I am in agreement with you statement as they probably wouldn't be too difficult to integrate back in with proper instructiion.

 

[dvcochran]

I agree. The single-technique forms (what I call “classical forms”) are a different thing, and I wonder if this is the Japanese approach, and was applied to Okinawan forms. In Daito-Ryu (and NGA), there are single-technique forms used to introduce a technique. They are two-man forms, and are essentially the same as any beginning version used to teach a grappling technique (no resistance, easy access to the technique). So they are used as the starting point for a technique. If you use that same approach with the Okinawan forms, it reverses what I see as the appropriate pedagogical approach.

That all assumes the Okinawan approach was ever the reverse, and that I’m right about the Japanese approach. I could be wrong on both counts.

If you have any video, I would love to see an example of your two-man form. I wonder if it is the equivalent of Korean one-step drills.

 

[skribs]

That is true as long as no intricate moves are missed along the way and there is difficulty in placing them in the proper place. But in general I am in agreement with you statement as they probably wouldn't be too difficult to integrate back in with proper instructiion.

I was stating what it's good for. There's a lot of things it's not good for, and it isn't a replacement for practicing on a partner. I was merely explaining how it can be effective practice, because people shouldn't have to only practice with a partner.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you have any video, I would love to see an example of your two-man form. I wonder if it is the equivalent of Korean one-step drills.

senseicarter on YouTube has posted several videos. You're looking for what he refers to as "Classical technique".

 

[CKB]

In my experience (3rd dan in Hapkido, color belts in several other ju-jutsu derived arts), it is absolutely possible to get some benefit out of "shadow practice" of grappling techniques (and even pure visualisation), but I'm not sure how beneficial it is if you haven't trained the techniques in question quite a bit against live people first, and actually experienced how the technique "feels", and the differences in effect with all the small modifications as you are bound to do as you explore a new technique.

Just keep in mind that "shadow practicing" a technique you don't know well enough could possibly result in comitting incorrect and ineffective body movement to muscle memory.

 

[oftheherd1]

...

Just keep in mind that "shadow practicing" a technique you don't know well enough could possibly result in comitting incorrect and ineffective body movement to muscle memory.

I have to agree with that.