Seeking Kukkiwon practitioners' thoughts on the Kukkiwon Membership System

[FieldDiscipline]

I joined once I got my 5th Dan

Is that a requirement or can anybody join? If a KKW 1,2,3 or 4th dan was running a school could he join and what is the benefit? I couldn't see a dan level specified on the form. I did see it said master - is this where the KKW have set the "master level" now - 5th degree? I've noted WTF has that for 1st degree now in places.

Is there anything else to it other than some nice freebies? What information do they send you if any? Does it help you in any way?

 

[andyjeffries]

Is that a requirement or can anybody join? If a KKW 1,2,3 or 4th dan was running a school could he join and what is the benefit? I couldn't see a dan level specified on the form. I did see it said master - is this where the KKW have set the "master level" now - 5th degree? I've noted WTF has that for 1st degree now in places.

You have to be a 4th Dan or above. It's to create an online account so that you can put in for dan promotions.

Is there anything else to it other than some nice freebies? What information do they send you if any? Does it help you in any way?

Only in that you have to have it to promote your students and it helps them to have you counted.

 

[Kinghercules]

I am interested in Kukkiwon practitioners' thoughts on the Kukkiwon Membership System: http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/front...629&category=1&pageNum=1&searchKey=&searchVal=

If you study Kukkiwon Taekwondo, is your dojang owner a member in this system? If you are the owner of a dojang and teach Kukkiwon Taekwondo, do you participate in this? Why or why not?

Thank you,

Cynthia

I dont see whats the big deal about the Kukkiwon. Its just and association.
And from what Ive seen you dont have to do much or know much to become a member, just pay the fee and you're in.
I use to work at a school that was certified my the KKW but they are ITF based.
So its like you dont have to do anything but pay the money and you're in.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I dont see whats the big deal about the Kukkiwon. Its just and association.

Kind of stating the obvious here. You could say the same thing about the FIE too. They're just an association. But if you want to fence in the Olympics, see how far you get without them.

Sure, the Kukkiwon is just an association. But it is an association that was formed by the pioneers of the art, not just a group of people practicing an existing art who didn't like the status quo and started their own group. Nothing wrong with the latter, but such organizations carry less influence than the former.

And from what Ive seen

Which is?

you dont have to do much or know much to become a member, just pay the fee and you're in.

Really? Please show me the "pay for a membership card and you're in" button on the Kukkiwon site: http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/front...629&category=1&pageNum=1&searchKey=&searchVal

You know, the one where you gain 'membership' soley by paying. In order to utilize the membership program, you need to be a fourth dan KKW, which involves a lot more than just paying money.

I use to work at a school that was certified my the KKW but they are ITF based.

Given that this program only came out a little more than a year ago, if you school is part of it, then your kwanjang is a fourth dan-plus KKW taekwondoin. That means that he has had a fairly lengthy tenure as a Kukkiwon yudanja.

When you say that the school is ITF based, what do you mean by that?

And in what capacity were you employed? (not pertinent to the topic; simply curious.)

So its like you dont have to do anything but pay the money and you're in.

Again, please support this statement with some actual facts.

 

[Archtkd]

So, is anyone here actually a member of the Kukkiwon Membership System?

Cynthia

I am and it's a fairly easy process. You have to be 4th Dan and there was once talk that you also had to be a certified Kukkiwon instructor, but I don't know that is the case.

 

[andyjeffries]

I am and it's a fairly easy process. You have to be 4th Dan and there was once talk that you also had to be a certified Kukkiwon instructor, but I don't know that is the case.

It certainly wasn't when I joined (early 2011) as I'm not (yet).

 

[Kinghercules]

Kind of stating the obvious here. You could say the same thing about the FIE too. They're just an association. But if you want to fence in the Olympics, see how far you get without them.

Sure, the Kukkiwon is just an association. But it is an association that was formed by the pioneers of the art, not just a group of people practicing an existing art who didn't like the status quo and started their own group. Nothing wrong with the latter, but such organizations carry less influence than the former.


Which is?


Really? Please show me the "pay for a membership card and you're in" button on the Kukkiwon site: http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/front...629&category=1&pageNum=1&searchKey=&searchVal

You know, the one where you gain 'membership' soley by paying. In order to utilize the membership program, you need to be a fourth dan KKW, which involves a lot more than just paying money.



Given that this program only came out a little more than a year ago, if you school is part of it, then your kwanjang is a fourth dan-plus KKW taekwondoin. That means that he has had a fairly lengthy tenure as a Kukkiwon yudanja.

When you say that the school is ITF based, what do you mean by that?

And in what capacity were you employed? (not pertinent to the topic; simply curious.)

Again, please support this statement with some actual facts.

I taught class.

They did ITF forms and erything went back to Gen Choi. ITF based.
He had trained under GM John Holloway and thats probably how he got the KKW certification. Because GM Holloway taught ITF style but was associated with the KKW.

I was offered a KKW dan when I was teaching at that school and in Busan and when I was in Cambodia. All I had to do was pay a fee.
I didnt do it cause I didnt see a purpose to having one.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I taught class.

They did ITF forms and erything went back to Gen Choi. ITF based.

When you say 'ITF based,' what does that mean? What forms were you using and what sparring rule set did you use?

He had trained under GM John Holloway and thats probably how he got the KKW certification. Because GM Holloway taught ITF style but was associated with the KKW.

Well, GM Holloway didn't become associated with the Kukkiwon by accident. And if he was able to offer KKW certificates, then he was at least fourth dan in the organization. Is the school and GM Holloway actually part of the ITF or were they issuing dojang dans with a KKW certification option?

So essentially, you really haven't seen anything of the Kukkiwon as an organization or of a Kukkiwon school; you are assuming that since your instructor and his GM are both KKW certified and offered you, presumably a yudanja at that point, the option to be as well that that is all that there is to being a part of the Kukkiwon.

I was offered a KKW dan when I was teaching at that school and in Busan and when I was in Cambodia. All I had to do was pay a fee.
I didnt do it cause I didnt see a purpose to having one.

This was probably based on you already being a first or higher dan under a master who was also Kukkiwon. Sounds like he was willing to register you as an ildan with the KKW. But you had to be training under someone and also had to have a taekwondo background, so you at least had to know what you knew at the time, which I assume is a fair amount given that you were an instructor.

So there really was more than just paying the fee. Had you shown up with no experience in the art whatsoever and asked to pay for a dan grade, the conversation would have gone differently.

 

[mastercole]

I taught class.

They did ITF forms and erything went back to Gen Choi. ITF based.
He had trained under GM John Holloway and thats probably how he got the KKW certification. Because GM Holloway taught ITF style but was associated with the KKW.

I was offered a KKW dan when I was teaching at that school and in Busan and when I was in Cambodia. All I had to do was pay a fee.
I didnt do it cause I didnt see a purpose to having one.

I can certainly understand that you did not see a purpose in accepting the offer for Kukkiwon certification. However the man that you speak of, GM John Holloway who teaches an ITF curriculum to this very day, did accept Kukkiwon certification long ago, and his teacher GM Dong Ja Yang saw a great value in offering that to GM Holloway, and many other Taekwondoin. It was a first step in forming a closer relationship with the greater Taekwondo world and GM Holloway is a great example of what can be achieved by being involved in the greater Taekwondo world.

 

[Kinghercules]

When you say 'ITF based,' what does that mean? What forms were you using and what sparring rule set did you use?


Well, GM Holloway didn't become associated with the Kukkiwon by accident. And if he was able to offer KKW certificates, then he was at least fourth dan in the organization. Is the school and GM Holloway actually part of the ITF or were they issuing dojang dans with a KKW certification option?

So essentially, you really haven't seen anything of the Kukkiwon as an organization or of a Kukkiwon school; you are assuming that since your instructor and his GM are both KKW certified and offered you, presumably a yudanja at that point, the option to be as well that that is all that there is to being a part of the Kukkiwon.

This was probably based on you already being a first or higher dan under a master who was also Kukkiwon. Sounds like he was willing to register you as an ildan with the KKW. But you had to be training under someone and also had to have a taekwondo background, so you at least had to know what you knew at the time, which I assume is a fair amount given that you were an instructor.

So there really was more than just paying the fee. Had you shown up with no experience in the art whatsoever and asked to pay for a dan grade, the conversation would have gone differently.

Man come now...who da hell does that?
Like Ima walk into a dojo and ask to buy a BB. Seriously?
I thought it was obvious that I've been trainin in TKD.
But I guess it wasnt......my bad.

 

[andyjeffries]

Well, I am convinced. I shall have to finally, after all these years, become a Kukkiwon member

That makes me wonder, since I have never been a member of the World Taekwondo Federation, maybe I can join that too, then after all these years of being a Taekwondoin, I would finally be a member of both.

My sarcasm meter is pinging like crazy...

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Man come now...who da hell does that?
Like Ima walk into a dojo and ask to buy a BB. Seriously?

You said, "So its like you dont have to do anything but pay the money and you're in." My response is that you did more than just walk in off of the street and pay a fee, which you statement implies is all that one needs to do; not that you did so yourself.

I thought it was obvious that I've been trainin in TKD.
But I guess it wasnt......my bad.

Okay, you ignored nearly all of what I posted and asked you. None of which I would have asked you if I hadn't thought that you trained in TKD.

So, I will try this again:

When you say 'ITF based,' what does that mean? What forms were you using and what sparring rule set did you use?

Is the school and GM Holloway actually part of the ITF or were they issuing dojang dans with a KKW certification option?

 

[mastercole]

My sarcasm meter is pinging like crazy...

Well, it's true, I have never been a member of the Kukkiwon, or the WTF. I have been on a committee or two, but never a member.

 

[mastercole]

Originally Posted by Daniel Sullivan
When you say 'ITF based,' what does that mean? What forms were you using and what sparring rule set did you use?


Well, GM Holloway didn't become associated with the Kukkiwon by accident. And if he was able to offer KKW certificates, then he was at least fourth dan in the organization. Is the school and GM Holloway actually part of the ITF or were they issuing dojang dans with a KKW certification option?

So essentially, you really haven't seen anything of the Kukkiwon as an organization or of a Kukkiwon school; you are assuming that since your instructor and his GM are both KKW certified and offered you, presumably a yudanja at that point, the option to be as well that that is all that there is to being a part of the Kukkiwon.

This was probably based on you already being a first or higher dan under a master who was also Kukkiwon. Sounds like he was willing to register you as an ildan with the KKW. But you had to be training under someone and also had to have a taekwondo background, so you at least had to know what you knew at the time, which I assume is a fair amount given that you were an instructor.

So there really was more than just paying the fee. Had you shown up with no experience in the art whatsoever and asked to pay for a dan grade, the conversation would have gone differently.

Man come now...who da hell does that?
Like Ima walk into a dojo and ask to buy a BB. Seriously?
I thought it was obvious that I've been trainin in TKD.
But I guess it wasnt......my bad.

Daniel's point if correct. Whoever it was, was not offering to register some non-Taekwondo guy with the Kukkiwon. They had confidence in you and offered you the opportunity to be involved in the greater, big wide world of Taekwondo, the one that your teacher, GM Ki Whang Kim was involved in.

I don't see that offer as a negative, I see it as an opportunity, like that one extended to GM Holloway.

 

[andyjeffries]

Well, it's true, I have never been a member of the Kukkiwon, or the WTF. I have been on a committee or two, but never a member.

And given your closeness to them I can't imagine you're now going to join for a flag and another certificate ;-)

 

[mastercole]

And given your closeness to them I can't imagine you're now going to join for a flag and another certificate ;-)

I certainly am happy to learn what they offer, but I don't know if I would actually consider that "close" or even that I have a close relationship with Kukkiwon. I know it seems odd for me to say so, but seriously, I'd like to have the flag and hang it up in the school, we don't have one.

 

[puunui]

I know it seems odd for me to say so, but seriously, I'd like to have the flag and hang it up in the school, we don't have one.

If you want, you can have my flag, and the stickers too. All of that stuff is still in the box that it came in in my kma book room.

 

[irgordon]

http://kms.kukkiwon.or.kr/usr/club/find.do

They have a database you can search...you can also look up your Kukkiwon DAN here: http://kms.kukkiwon.or.kr/usr/check.do

 

[Tony49]

I know this is an old thread, but wondering if anyone has signed up for the new KMS or do you just go through your GM or national organization.

 

[andyjeffries]

I know this is an old thread, but wondering if anyone has signed up for the new KMS or do you just go through your GM or national organization.

You lost me a bit with this, I thought the whole thread (from early 2012) was about the KMS?

Or do you mean specifically "signed up on the relaunched-this-year KMS website"?