Sayoc Kali

[arnisandyz]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
Uh, yeah...what arnisandyz said

Now that Andy is here, he can field all the Sayoc Kali and Pambuan Arnis questions and I can stop talking outta my butt

Cthulhu

Hey now, I have some "working knowledge" of these systems. I by no means am an expert on them.

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by arnisandyz

Hey now, I have some "working knowledge" of these systems. I by no means am an expert on them.

That may be so, but it's still a hell of a lot more than what I have! Unless a more qualified candidate comes along, I nominate you as the resident expert

Cthulhu

:lol:

 

[arnisador]

How do the "vital templates" in Sayoc Kali differ from angles of attack? Are they based on certain particular points that are attacked? I know Cthulhu has mentioned that knowledge of anatomy plays a big role in the system.

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by arnisador

How do the "vital templates" in Sayoc Kali differ from angles of attack? Are they based on certain particular points that are attacked? I know Cthulhu has mentioned that knowledge of anatomy plays a big role in the system.

I can only give my first impressions from the one I've been shown so far...

The template I was shown is various strikes to vital points of the body: cuts to the carotid/jugular, 'C'-cut to body, straight slash down torso, stab, etc.

Done statically, it's just a guy waving a knife at someone. However, the 'target' can defend against the cuts, which forces you to deal with the defenses to get the cuts in. Amazingly, when done with defenses, it all flows.

Again, this is just first impressions. If arnisandyz is on, he can elaborate or provide a more accurate description.

Cthulhu

 

[arnisandyz]

From the Sayoc Website...

The Sayoc Kali system of knife work includes methods of targeting different vital points of the body. These targeting systems are known as vital templates. This is in contrast to systems that commonly just present a system of angles by which to deliver knife strikes which may or may not have an equivalent degree of effectiveness. We apply our left hand vital templates that were developed to counter the right hand vital templates. The right hand vital templates are designed to counter reflexive and conditioned responses. The left hand vital templates were designed to react to correct responses.


In other words, Sayoc Kali is very feeder based. Meaning you present an attack and see what response you get, if you get a "bad hand" type of response, continuing the flow of the vital template will allow your blade to seek the correct path. If you get a correct response. the left hand template (holding a blade) comes into play. The left and right are done seperate and together in practice.

Think of it as more scientific approach, but similar to a boxing combination. Punch high, he covers his head, so hit low.

 

[arnisandyz]

Sorry, I made a mistake, although we practice the left hand with blade, it can be used empty hand within the templates for hitting, clearing, trapping, etc.

Hope this helps.

 

[arnisador]

Looking at Mark Wiley's Filipino Fighting Arts book, it sounds as if Sayoc Kali does not use the "defanging the snake principle" as much as other FMA--that Sayoc practitioners prefer to get at the vital regions on the body sooner rather than damaging the limbs. Is this perception accurate?

 

[arnisandyz]

Originally posted by arnisador

Looking at Mark Wiley's Filipino Fighting Arts book, it sounds as if Sayoc Kali does not use the "defanging the snake principle" as much as other FMA--that Sayoc practitioners prefer to get at the vital regions on the body sooner rather than damaging the limbs. Is this perception accurate?

From what I've seen I would agree with that. Although hitting the limbs does happen, I don't think its stressed as much as a other FMA. It seems like they like going from extended long (throwing range) to tight middle-corto range to take away some of the throwing from the attacker, thus avoiding the long range (where defanging usually occurs. At one seminar Tuhon Chris showed us a counter to a defang counter. He stopped his attack short (as not to get cut) and launched the blade into the defanger, as he was avoiding the projectile, Tuhon Chris drew another blade and went in for a vital target. They like to carry multiple blades obviously! Just my observation.

 

[arnisador]

Thanks arnisandyz! This has been most educational.

 

[arnisador]

I learned today that Sayoc Kali will be featured in two upcoming movies:
The Hunted.
Confessions of a Dangerous Mind. (The Sam Rockwell character.)

Sayoc Kali instructors trained actors in these movies.

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by arnisador

I learned today that Sayoc Kali will be featured in two upcoming movies:
The Hunted.
Confessions of a Dangerous Mind. (The Sam Rockwell character.)

Sayoc Kali instructors trained actors in these movies.

The cast listing for The Hunted lists Rafael Kayanan and Thomas Kier as knife technical advisors!

Rafael, and his brother Ricardo(?), are ninth-level instructors in Sayoc Kali-Silak, and Thomas Kier is ranked in the system as well. I'm very interested in seeing how their expertise is used!

Cthulhu

 

[arnisandyz]

At the last FCS gathering Ray had mentioned that Rafael was in California doing stunt coregraphy for "Tom's movie". Does anyone know if Tom Kier is actually IN the movie (maybe a bit role) or is he also primarily a stunt/technical advisor? I think he would make a pretty "BIG" screen presence!

I have to see these movies!

 

[arnisandyz]

I just read the Plot outline of "Confessions of a Dangerous Mind".What the ????? the Gong Show host is secretly a CIA agent? OK.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by arnisandyz

At the last FCS gathering Ray had mentioned that Rafael was in California doing stunt coregraphy for "Tom's movie". Does anyone know if Tom Kier is actually IN the movie

Could he have meant Tommy Lee Jones, who stars in one of the movies? He did knife fighting in a Steven Seagal movie too of course. I found the knifework in that one rather unrealistic ("Under Siege").

 

[Cthulhu]

Kayanan is also listed in the credits as the storyboard artist!

Cthulhu

 

[Cthulhu]

Okay, something I just found out from the Sayoc kali site: both Rafael Kayanan and Thomas Kier are now ranked as Tuhon.

Cthulhu

 

[Guro_Jeff]

greetings and respects to all,
i'd like to introduce myself to those of you who do not know me... i am Guro Jeff of Sayoc Kali.

i have been associated with Tuhon Chris since 1997, and have actively promoted and taught Sayoc Kali since that time

some of you may have seen notices of my seminars about the country, i have taught seminars in NY, IL, WA, CA, IN, NH and i often entertain visiting instructors from other states in my classes... most recently someone from Japan!

if there are any questions i may be able to answer about Sayoc Kali, i will do my best to answer them.

it is nice to be here

respects, Guro Jeff

http://www.tribalbladefightingarts.com

 

[arnisandyz]

Greetings Guro Jeff!!! Is great to have your input on the board. If I may pass the buck that Cthuhu has placed upon me, you are now the premiere authority on Sayoc Kali! Most of my information has come second hand from training with Guro Ray Dionaldo, its great that you have firsthand knowledge from Tuhon Chris. I look forward to it.

Andy

 

[Cthulhu]

There's a trailer for The Hunted, which is to feature Sayoc Kali! The clips shows a bit of knife work.

I'm definitely gonna see this one.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/the_hunted/

You'll need Quicktime to view the trailer.

Cthulhu

 

[Guro Harold]

Hi Cthulhu!

Could you post this in Sports and Entertainment too? The trailer is awesome!!!

Palusut