RyuShiKan - Hero or Zero?

[Cruentus]

RSK,

I don't know if you'll read this, but...

If you quit MT, then I think that your being a baby. So friggin' what if 18 people voted against you, and only 12 for you. There are how many subscribers here? A hell of a lot more then that!

You have a lot to offer a lot of people. It is unfortunate that your not using this ability to educate martial artists, and you are instead focusing on slamming the ones you don't agree with. It also unfortunate that you allow yourself to get emotionally caught up in BS that makes people have ill opinions of you.

Don't be a baby, and come back to MT, and have CONSTRUCTIVE discussions, w/o slamming people.

You have to much to offer to be a quiter.

Sincerely,
PAUL:asian:

P.S. I voted "Kaith is an idiot" by the way, just for laughs!

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
You've won Kaith. RSK "tapped".

X10

If you've read ANYTHING in the thread, it wasn't about who would win between Kaith and RSK

 

[Zepp]

I'm not going to bother trying to read beyond the first page of this thread.

I should say that there is one piece of information that I know of that Ryushikan posted that wasn't true (in the health tips forum), which I pointed out, and it resulted in him openly insulting me. I know I am probably one of the people he reported as being a troll. (Though admittedly I did bait him, but come on, sometimes it's just too much fun to make fun of someone's neuroses.)

I voted for the middle choice. Even though he's a pretentious ***, he usually did provide some reliable information, and his fraud-busting wouldn't have been so bad if he would have just let it rest after he provided us with the information.

Ryushikan, if you bother to keep reading this, I hope your offline life is happier than your Martial Talk life.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Kaith: If you feel like you've lost, then you should have walked away from the fight before TKO'ing the opponent.

And you wonder why... Oh nevermind.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by PAUL
This is a long thread, and I haven't had the time to read it all.

I'll just give my humble opinion.

It would seem that RSK has a lot to offer in terms of knowledge.

I think that he lacks "tact" when he "fraud busts" however. There are ways to put someone in there place while staying within the rules. There is no reason to fly off the handle badly enough to get banned or suspended.

That is what gets me. All he would have to do is relax, and ask the right questions, and let the frauds dig themselves into the hole. Then he could state what he knows in a humble manner, and the "frauds" would be effectively exposed. This is far more effective then hammering.

Personally, his mannerism doesn't even bother me; not much does, really. I don't even study Karate, or Japanese arts, so I don't really care. I just think that if he took a different approach, he would be far more successful at accomplishing whatever he is trying to accomplish.

I agree, screaming at people right away isn't the best answer, although I admint to doing it.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by PAUL
RSK,

I don't know if you'll read this, but...

If you quit MT, then I think that your being a baby. So friggin' what if 18 people voted against you, and only 12 for you. There are how many subscribers here? A hell of a lot more then that!

You have a lot to offer a lot of people. It is unfortunate that your not using this ability to educate martial artists, and you are instead focusing on slamming the ones you don't agree with. It also unfortunate that you allow yourself to get emotionally caught up in BS that makes people have ill opinions of you.

Don't be a baby, and come back to MT, and have CONSTRUCTIVE discussions, w/o slamming people.

You have to much to offer to be a quiter.

Sincerely,
PAUL:asian:

P.S. I voted "Kaith is an idiot" by the way, just for laughs!

I think him being sick with all the sokes and the people who defend them is the biggest factor in his resignation.

 

[chufeng]

I've decided to break with SOP here, and ask the members their opinions

for starters...

When I asked people to bust the YiLi clan's chops I did that because I represent YiLi...

When you put a poll up regarding a pink belt for MOB, that was at his request...
When MOB put his poll up HE did that...
When Seig put up his poll about MOB, it was tongue in cheek and more for humor...

But YOUR recent poll is a moderator-sanctioned attack on an individual (remember to keep it general? nothing personal?) ...

You can call it what you like, but everyone here KNOWS you are the owner and moderator of this really remarkable web board.
What's most remarkable is that you would prefer nice-nice to truth...When someone gets caught in a lie but then continues to cover his tracks and cry for help from the moderators because someone else isn't playing nice...and then the one who uncovered the lie gets repremanded for not playing nice, THAT smacks of ultra left wing BS...

I don't really care what your political views are, but this board has gone too far to the left in its policies...I hope you enjoy the misinformation you are inviting onto this nice friendly forum...I hope the whole group of soke-dokes can now gather for a warm group hug...

When I signed on here, I was impressed with much of the dialogue...but when I saw how the moderators defended the frauds, I grew skeptical...this POLL is an affirmation that you are more interested in nice-nice than you are the truth...

I can't support that. Sorry...

delete my membership.

For those who wish to continue to correspond, my e-mail address is [email protected] it has been fun, I've learned a lot from many of you...Thanks

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Cthulhu]

When someone asks whether a certain person or group of people is a fraud and you do the research and offer your opinions is alright.

When nobody asks, and you actively go about digging into people's past on your own and then put it up unsolicited, that isn't so hot.

If Joe Blow asks if Joe Schmoe is legit and you find out otherwise and report this, fine.

If Joe Blow signs up for the board and you go snooping into his affairs for no reason, and by all appearances for the sole purpose of 'digging up' stuff, that isn't fine.

It isn't the 'fraud busting' that's the issue. It's the manner in which it is carried out.

Cthulhu

 

[Disco]

Elvis has left the building, for the umpteenth time. As stated before, I have nothing personal against RSK, but I do have reservations about him. Aside from the obvious lack of tact and his hostile demeaner, he had no quams about blowing his own horn (does calligraphy, multi lingual, multi styled trained, historical guru and so on). Some feel that he has a lot to offer. I ask how do you determine that? I personally would'nt know if what he states in his posts (dealing with names and historical dates and such), is in fact truth or BS. I have no intention of taking extensive time to research the subject that was stated, I do have better things to do. So like many of you, I accept it at face value. If it does not directly effect me, I pay no real attention to it. But, should I manage to have some small knowledge of what is being discussed, it does perk my interest. When I have taken the time to get involved/read thru the thread, I have found flaws/contradictions with his rebuttles to others. Now understand, what I may consider contrary, other's may not. All this being said, I would prefer that RSK stay a member. We may not see eye to eye (in fact we have never had a dialog with each other), but all sides of a debate/discussion/argument should be voiced. Yeah, you may be a pain in the *** to many, but my kids are a pain in the *** too, but I still love them. You are to me a brother within the Martial Arts Family. Since we are a form of family, we should be able to tolerate each other better and at least attempt to co-exist on a more rational basis.
:asian:

 

[paihequan]

Since we are a form of family, we should be able to tolerate each other better and at least attempt to co-exist on a more rational basis.

I agree. :asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I will not comment further on Robert, other than to say I wish him well.

The same goes to chufeng.

Both of them are welcome to resignup later if they so wish, as is anyone else whose account we delete at their request.

The only stipulation is, follow our rules.


I don't like the frauds, but they often times seem to be a lot friendlier than the busters.

Based on the concerns of a few, we tried to put guidelines into place to aid this 'fraud busting'. The way it was being done turned almost every thread into a resume check.

The ideals on this board are the friendly exchange of information. Information being techniques, forms, ideas, seminars, and more.

Its not 'fraudtalk'.

But, its also not been very friendly either.
I expect a few more folks to leave.

Its a shame. Most do have a lot to offer.

Then again, I think many that were forced away due to the constant paper checks also had alot to offer.

Some people cups run over it seems.


Peace.
:asian:

 

[rmcrobertson]

"Too far to the left?"

Now that's comedy. Good to know that the Big Lies that morally-defective pundits like William Bennett and George F. Will have been shouting (and getting paid very, very well indeed to shout, I might add) from the rooftops have sunk in...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Can I possibly be too far to the right -and- left?

I mean, I know I need to lose a few pound, but thats just mean.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

1 small request.

If you would like your account deleted, please use the Report To Mod feature on any post in this thread, and specifiy that you want your account killed.

You can also PM me or Cthu. Please dont PM Arnisador.
He is on vacation for at least another week, so will be way behind answering any PMs or emails about this or other board issues.

It will be done no questions asked.

If in the future you wish to sign up again, the door will be open.


Peace.
:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
I posted some of them yesterday on a post you responded to.......I guess you haven't been reading them thoroughly enough.
In fact it was a question posted by your very own Mod Rich Parsons that I responded to.

RSK is a guest for now.

I will still reply.

Thank you RSK for your post.

Yet, Could anyone please inform me, how I would go about verifying these claims with whom RSK trained?

Do, I personally care? Nope!

Do I think the exercise would be good for knowledge,? Yes I do just ofr the experience of knowing how it is done.

Thank you all

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Bob, stop trying to make yourself feel better by supporting your decision to toss Robert out with a general call to arms against him. Either boot him, or don't.

You and other Mods have multiple accounts. You and other mods post under multiple accounts. You have banned others for doing so. Is there a caveat that Mods can do this while members can't?

Robert has reacted to the public claims of questionable people, to the public claims of people who claim to possess information or knowledge that they either really don't or don't to the degree they claim, and he has reacted to the emotionally charged replies people he has questioned have made when their arts and their efforts were shown to have elements that might make them less than the be-all-end-all they claimed they were. Sometimes you offend folks. Sometimes you don't. When they get their dander up, you either quail and back down, or you hold your ground. Some folks have trouble with that, I guess...

I admit that some of his tangential threads could have been left alone, but I don't remember Robert ever going out initially to hunt down those whose profiles didn't sit well with him. "Hey boys, let's go hunt us some McDojo-philes!" Sorry, never heard that announcement a single time.

The folks that I've seen ***** most are the folks who have had their arts and practice called into question. They're pissed off, so they run to mommy and daddy to tattle rather than provide arguments justifying and substantiating their claims. They could use the ignore feature, they could choose to fight back. But instead they cry and run away with their feelings all hurted... :wah: The other folks who bellyache about Robert's gruffness appear to me to be East and West coast thin-skinned whiners who have trouble dealing with the no-nonsense attitude of us Midwesterners... Find a way to deal with it. I have yet to find any of us to be open to loving, sharing, caring, feather wearing, crystal carrying, group hugs in the face of frauds, lies and other nonsense.

And about the poll here... If I were to have ever posted a poll calling someone a name and asking for a vote to kick or not kick someone off the board, what would the ramifications have been? I think such a poll is way beneath you , Bob. But in the end, I want to thank you for confirming in me my decision to just go away for a long while. With your juvenile reaction to this issue, I am definitely going away for longer than I had thought. But hey, it's your website, right? So that makes it your yard and your ball, so play how you like... And I was your second vote. I'm sure you will grieve my absence... :shrug: But in the end, with the loss of any members, you are the one losing out.

Everyone reading this - either support Robert and his views and don't be afraid to voice your opinions against people whose BS fails the common sense tests. Or don't. Seems to me I recall that the way to enlightenment in many older martial arts and temples lay in the stern application of a stick of bamboo, not a warm and friendly hug...

Robert, you know where to find me.

Open invite for anyone in the Tacoma/SeaTac/Seattle area to train with us Yili folks, provided you have a thick enough skin to handle it... We make fun of ourselves constantly, so folks with tender sensibilities need not apply. And we don't play patty cake, either, so if you just want to wear spiffy jammies and pretend to train, stay home.

See you around the pike, Bob. Or not. Either one is inevitable.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

Matt,

Nice arguement.

PM me so we can discuss my supposed insult to you sir.

I never meant it as such yet, I see that I have offended your instructor and or you yourself.

:asian:

 

[Shuri-te]

Cthulhu said:

When someone asks whether a certain person or group of people is a fraud and you do the research and offer your opinions is alright.

When nobody asks, and you actively go about digging into people's past on your own and then put it up unsolicited, that isn't so hot.

If Joe Blow asks if Joe Schmoe is legit and you find out otherwise and report this, fine.

If Joe Blow signs up for the board and you go snooping into his affairs for no reason, and by all appearances for the sole purpose of 'digging up' stuff, that isn't fine.

It isn't the 'fraud busting' that's the issue. It's the manner in which it is carried out.

Thank you for taking the time to differentiate between true fraud busting, and martial talk poster smearing. Fraud busting serves its purposes. If a poster wants to go to a seminar, and hasn't heard anything about the instructor, and asks a question on MT and gets sound advice, based on experience, that is one thing. It's win-win.

But when a poster comes to MT and wants to contribute, and his background becomes a battleground for all that want to slam him, then there are some who wouldn't call that "fraud busting". Smearing might be a better term. Hard to argue that it's all that friendly.

Some people seem genuinely threatened by those that claim high rank. It is interesting. Some systems dole out rank at an alarming rate, and not just western ones, but Okinawan and Japanese as well.

In Japan, there have been young high dans. One example is Shogo Kuniba who reached 7th dan at 31 (http://www.kunibakai.org/history_of_shogo_kuniba.htm). Eizo Shimabukuro, headmaster of Shobayashi Shorin Ryu, was promoted to 10th dan at 34 by Kanken Toyama. (http://www.okinawankarateclub.com/Shorin_Ryu.htm). Oyata was a 7th dan by the time he was 36.

In the US, there are hundreds of people still active that began training in the arts in the 60s, and thousands that began training in the 70s. For those in systems that award rank, that translates into thousands of individuals with 5th degree and above. And many of these long time practitioners are from systems with no affiliation with Japan or Okinawa and are found across North and South America, Europe, and the Middle East.

MT has become a soapbox for self-appointed fraud-busters that claim they can look at a jpeg of a diploma and then accurately judge the legitimacy and effectiveness of a system. Yet some of these same individuals have made claims that to truly understand a system, you have to train in it for years.

There are some who would like to share on MT without having to undergo an exhaustive review of their backgrounds, particularly when the review is likely to include ridicule of the system one has chosen to train in.

There are some who would like to use MT to share information about seminars, and share jpegs of training without each picture receiving a negative critique on whether a particular stance is appropriate and or hand position effective, or whether the art is a legitimate one.

There are some who would like to share all sorts of information in a friendly forum free from ridicule and verbal abuse. The past three months have shown a remarkable slide away from the friendly, as ever more emboldened individuals use the forum to denigrate those they dislike.

Is it there going to be an renewed effort at a friendly forum, or should we expect more of the same?

 

[paihequan]

Shuri-Te makes some very valid points and ones certainly worthy of some consideration.

But when a poster comes to MT and wants to contribute, and his background becomes a battleground for all that want to slam him, then there are some who wouldn't call that "fraud busting". Smearing might be a better term. Hard to argue that it's all that friendly.

This is what happened to me. I merely posted a link to my own web site and was set upon. In reply, I did not validate the attacks made on me but rather simply decided to be polite as possible in any posts I made. I am after all a person not a martial arts politician. I have asked that Mr. Hubbard check my credentials and make his own decision.

Is it there going to be an renewed effort at a friendly forum, or should we expect more of the same?

I hope that this is a start of a new and hopefully more friendly Martial Talk in which the arts (not the personalities and ranks behind them) are the focal point. :asian:

 

[Algus]

There is only two persons here at Martial Talk, whom I read all of their posts, and RyuShiKan is one of them.

I will miss you, Robert. Please come back!

Kaith, I think that MT is one of the best forums around. And the reason I signed up was RyuShiKan.

I think that polls about members should be avoided. But in this case...well ok... as RyuShiKan is a big boy and can take this screening. He is one most knowledgeable martial artist I know, that also puts in time on the Internet. I think that RyuShiKan could be used better here on MT. I learned alot from him here at MT and hopefully we can engage him more in friendly discussions in the future.

While I do not always agree with RyuShiKan about the fraud-busting. A little to much sometimes - misguided energy. It is mainly because he gives them information that allows the "wanna-be-sokes" to make their cover up better. I kind of like when they use the wrong (or misdrawn) kanji and make up real bad names (words). Easy to spot and provides a good laugh. But the amount of wannabees are really, really depressing.

I regard Robert as good friend and a excellent teacher. Usually I leave to him to fend for himself, as he is more then able. Kaith, do not lose Robert as a member. I think that Chufeng post said it all the right reasons for that as well.

(OK! So I usually do not post much on forums. What can I say. I read fast, but I write s-l-o-w.)

 

[yilisifu]

When I first saw this thread - about taking a vote on the worth of a particular member, I was really rather shocked. I expected more professionalism than that. I posted what I honestly thought, but it's obvious that this personal problem with a member has gone way too far.

When a member like RSK is attacked because he stands up and asks perfectly valid questions, it's time to depart and return to my own kind.

Please delete my account.