Rousey returning

[Steve]

The fact that there is a little 'show Ignored Content' sign at the bottom of this thread tells me I'm probably being slagged off again roflmao. Process of elimination ( ie he's now the only one on my ignore list) means it must be Steve, poor man, he tries so hard to hide how fond of me he is by slagging me off, deliberately misunderstanding and deliberately twisting everything I write, doesn't work though, to do that so obsessively means 'stalker'. You'd think he'd put me on ignore by now wouldn't you or find someone who liked the twisted devotion he shows.

i like most of your posts. Sometimes, you get weird. I don't know what slagging you off would look like, but I'm pretty sure I'm not doing it.

And I won't ignore your posts, because I have no problems with your posts. I also kind of enjoy the surreal nature of posts like this. I know you don't care for me, but for what it's worth I genuinely enjoy most of your posts and respect what you've done in the military and in martial arts.

your beef with rousey (and now carano), women you should by all rights be applauding for their success and the good they've done for women in Mma, is just strange to me. I don't get it.

 

[Steve]

Tez3 and Steve sitting in the tree
K-i-s-s-i-n-g!
First comes love.
Then comes marriage.
Then comes baby* in the baby carriage,
Sucking his thumb,
Wetting his pants,
Doing the hula, hula dance!

I think she's warming up to me. I'm like Islay scotch. You have to want to like me at first, but after a while I'm better than bourbon.

 

[Tames D]

I think she's warming up to me. I'm like Islay scotch. You have to want to like me at first, but after a while I'm better than bourbon.

Yeah, I hear ya Steve. I'm aiming to be more like you. At this point I'm like Red Mountain wine. But I used to be Boone's Farm.
I feel like Monday morning but someday I'll be Saturday night...

 

[Tez3]

Oooh more 'ignored content'.

People who carry grudges are losing out on life.
Rousey is a public figure, an entertainer ( as all fighters are whether they realise it or not, some do, some don't) so people either like her or don't. That's life, it's not an insult to her country to dislike her, it's not a sign of jealousy, not a sign or mental instability just as it isn't if you do like her. On the scale of one to ten of her importance in my life she's about a minus 100. As for her being a pioneer she was one of two female fighters who comprised the first female fight on the UFC, who can name the other fighter?
The UFC saw money in putting on female fights, she and the other fighter were chosen as the first, that's not pioneering. She wasn't in there in the early nineties fighting to get an MMA fights put on, let alone female fights, she didn't have to find somewhere that would train MMA again let alone female fighters, she didn't have to persuade promoters to give her fights. she's had 13 opponents in 6 promotions, that happened because of the female fighters who went before, fighting not just in the ring/cage but to get promoters to take female fights, to match them and actually find opponents. it was incredibly difficult in the 90s to do any of this. Female fighters often had to travel to Japan to find suitable opponents, and all over Europe. There was no money available either, we had to club together to get a female fighter from here to the US to fight, she only got expenses paid if she fought, her opponent came in well over weight ( as usual) but to get the money to pay for the hotel and living expenses in the US our girl had to fight, lost of course with her opponent being that much heavier ( this sort of thing doesn't help female MMA either when it's tolerated) The upshot of this is today people only see the tail end of many fighter's careers and because they didn't have many fights assume they weren't good. You could also ask yourselves with these odds against them why female fighters carried on trying to break through the barriers. That they did in the end and didn't benefit so much from it is what makes them pioneers so that those who followed, like Rousey, didn't have to have all that before embarking on what is now a career in MMA rather than it being an odd and disapproved of activity for women.
So, no, Rousey isn't a 'pioneer' she's one of two female fighters who were first in the UFC. Notable certainly, and her career has been meteoric leading, I expect, to more opportunities but pioneering, no, not in any sense.

 

[Steve]

I just think it's really sad when people feel the need to disparage current progress out of a misguided need to protect the legacy of those who came before. Maybe I have a different idea of what makes a person a pioneer, but I consider it to be anyone who moves something forward into previously uncharted territory.

Rousey's achievements in no way diminish those of the women who came before her. Rousey and others certainly owe much to the foundation provided by others. This, like everything else, is a progression.

Rousey (and Carmouche was the other woman's name) did something significant. What distinguishes Rousey is that, because of her success, women are now making into the 6 figures annually by fighting. Women are actually making a living doing what they want to do. That, in my opinion, is what distinguishes Rousey from Carmouche and others, although I would say that the women who compete in the UFC in 10 years will owe all of this current crop a debt of gratitude for paving the way. because that's what pioneers do.

Jackie Robinson couldn't have been the first black player in MBL without the thriving Negro League. Jackie Robinson was a pioneer in baseball because he was the first African American to play at that level. He broke that wall. Did his accomplishment in any way diminish those of the players who set that stage? I don't think so. And it would be sad if someone were to try and diminish Jackie Robinson's achievements in a misguided effort to protect the legacy of the men who came before him.

The saddest thing I see is that Tez3 is so close to this she can't see the progress that has been made, and so can't appreciate it for what it is.

 

[Buka]

Oooh more 'ignored content'.

People who carry grudges are losing out on life.
Rousey is a public figure, an entertainer ( as all fighters are whether they realise it or not, some do, some don't) so people either like her or don't. That's life, it's not an insult to her country to dislike her, it's not a sign of jealousy, not a sign or mental instability just as it isn't if you do like her. On the scale of one to ten of her importance in my life she's about a minus 100. As for her being a pioneer she was one of two female fighters who comprised the first female fight on the UFC, who can name the other fighter?
The UFC saw money in putting on female fights, she and the other fighter were chosen as the first, that's not pioneering. She wasn't in there in the early nineties fighting to get an MMA fights put on, let alone female fights, she didn't have to find somewhere that would train MMA again let alone female fighters, she didn't have to persuade promoters to give her fights. she's had 13 opponents in 6 promotions, that happened because of the female fighters who went before, fighting not just in the ring/cage but to get promoters to take female fights, to match them and actually find opponents. it was incredibly difficult in the 90s to do any of this. Female fighters often had to travel to Japan to find suitable opponents, and all over Europe. There was no money available either, we had to club together to get a female fighter from here to the US to fight, she only got expenses paid if she fought, her opponent came in well over weight ( as usual) but to get the money to pay for the hotel and living expenses in the US our girl had to fight, lost of course with her opponent being that much heavier ( this sort of thing doesn't help female MMA either when it's tolerated) The upshot of this is today people only see the tail end of many fighter's careers and because they didn't have many fights assume they weren't good. You could also ask yourselves with these odds against them why female fighters carried on trying to break through the barriers. That they did in the end and didn't benefit so much from it is what makes them pioneers so that those who followed, like Rousey, didn't have to have all that before embarking on what is now a career in MMA rather than it being an odd and disapproved of activity for women.
So, no, Rousey isn't a 'pioneer' she's one of two female fighters who were first in the UFC. Notable certainly, and her career has been meteoric leading, I expect, to more opportunities but pioneering, no, not in any sense.

Rousey is a public figure, an entertainer ( as all fighters are whether they realise it or not, some do, some don't) so people either like her or don't. That's life, it's not an insult to her country to dislike her, it's not a sign of jealousy, not a sign or mental instability just as it isn't if you do like her. On the scale of one to ten of her importance in my life she's about a minus 100.

I do not believe any of this discussion has to do with the importance in anybody's life. But, just for the sake of discussion, minus 100 is not within a scale of one to ten.

As for her being a pioneer she was one of two female fighters who comprised the first female fight on the UFC, who can name the other fighter?

Most of us probably can. But Rousey is the one remembered, because she won, and right or wrong, was crowned champion. And changed women's MMA forever. Historic, in my opinion.

The UFC saw money in putting on female fights, she and the other fighter were chosen as the first, that's not pioneering.

The UFC saw no such thing. I think that's one of the points you're missing. They were dead set against woman's competition, felt it was poison to their brand. Stupid and short sighted of them, in my opinion, but that's what they knew. (thought they knew, dumb bastards) Then they kept watching Rousey - and it changed everything. Forever, mind you.

She wasn't in there in the early nineties fighting to get an MMA fights put on, let alone female fights, she didn't have to find somewhere that would train MMA again let alone female fighters, she didn't have to persuade promoters to give her fights.

They wouldn't have let her be there, she was five years old at the time.

she's had 13 opponents in 6 promotions, that happened because of the female fighters who went before, fighting not just in the ring/cage but to get promoters to take female fights, to match them and actually find opponents.

Again, no, sorry, Tez, but it didn't. It happened because of the way Ronda Rousey fought and her obvious marketability. It didn't have anything, not one single thing to do with those who went before. I applaud them, too, I even know some of them. But they had nothing to do with it.

it was incredibly difficult in the 90s to do any of this. Female fighters often had to travel to Japan to find suitable opponents, and all over Europe. There was no money available either, we had to club together to get a female fighter from here to the US to fight, she only got expenses paid if she fought, her opponent came in well over weight ( as usual) but to get the money to pay for the hotel and living expenses in the US our girl had to fight, lost of course with her opponent being that much heavier ( this sort of thing doesn't help female MMA either when it's tolerated) The upshot of this is today people only see the tail end of many fighter's careers and because they didn't have many fights assume they weren't good. You could also ask yourselves with these odds against them why female fighters carried on trying to break through the barriers. That they did in the end and didn't benefit so much from it is what makes them pioneers so that those who followed, like Rousey, didn't have to have all that before embarking on what is now a career in MMA rather than it being an odd and disapproved of activity for women.

No, that's not really it, I feel like you're missing the point entirely. What they did, has nothing whatsoever to do with what happened with the birth of women's MMA in the UFC.

So, no, Rousey isn't a 'pioneer' she's one of two female fighters who were first in the UFC.

The one that WON, and forever changed the face of women's MMA across the world.F-o-r-e-v-e-r.

Notable certainly, and her career has been meteoric leading, I expect, to more opportunities but pioneering, no, not in any sense.

Yes, in EVERY sense. One hundred percent pioneer in the United States MMA scene. I know, not the only game in the world, but it's the best talent in the world, the biggest fight game in the world, it's the big leagues.

 

[Tez3]

The UFC saw no such thing. I think that's one of the points you're missing. They were dead set against woman's competition, felt it was poison to their brand. Stupid and short sighted of them, in my opinion, but that's what they knew. (thought they knew, dumb bastards) Then they kept watching Rousey - and it changed everything. Forever, mind you.

No, not 'they', one person alone. I'm not missing any points at all btw. That one person came around because he saw the dollar signs, nothing else. he didn't actually care whether women fought or not just cared about the money, he's a businessman so fair enough. How can you be a pioneer when the show is put on for you because the promoter sees money there? There were insider rumours for a long time that there was going to be female fights, it just depended who they would chose and when, Carano was first pick but she never made weight which looks bad, so Rousey was chosen.

Yes, in EVERY sense. One hundred percent pioneer in the United States MMA scene. I know, not the only game in the world, but it's the best talent in the world, the biggest fight game in the world, it's the big leagues

Oh dear. At some point nationalism always raises it's ugly head. So only Americans are the best fighters in the world? the rest of the world's fighters are pants? Really? In some countries the viewing and attendance figures for the UFC are lower than local promotions. I take it you haven't seen the Russian MMA scene?

As for the idea of pioneers, if you dismiss the idea of all those women who struggled hard to get female fights on cards as having nothing to do with anything then you'd probably better also dismiss the idea of the early pioneers of the US having nothing to do with where you live now and how. The early pioneers have everything to do with how things are now. As for the remark about Rousey just being a child at that in itself is childish. If you don't acknowledge those that came before then you are cheating yourself. Yes Rousey has done well for herself, but she did it because of those that had walked the path before her, without them she would have had a much, much harder time.
I don't understand why people can't credit Rousey and the early pioneers together, why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't people just say well done to all the female fighters? The early fighters worked to get someone where Rousey is now, she worked hard to get herself into the position that those early fighters wanted a female fighter to be in. They go hand in hand. Instead we get people whinging about the semantics of the word pioneer, people thinking the early fighters weren't any good and generally making it all about personal feelings about Rousey.
The percentage remark is hyperbole btw. I don't think you need to correct it in that circumstance.

Oh and you probably need to look at using the 'quote' system and looking at the font size, the tiny letters are impossible to read for older eyes.

 

[Steve]

Yeah, @Tez3, why can't you acknowledge the efforts of Ronda Rousey along with the women who came before? Bizarre that you're suggesting others are the ones having trouble with this.

 

[Steve]

One thing to add is that there are a lot of elite level MMA promotions in the world, but for brand recognition and money, the UFC is the big dog. Maybe it won't always be, but right now, it is. It happens to be an American based promotion.

The point isn't whether it's American or not, and I don't think Buka intended to suggest that all of the athletes in the UFC are from the USA. There are a lot of great fighters from all over the world.

 

[Kickboxer101]

One thing to add is that there are a lot of elite level MMA promotions in the world, but for brand recognition and money, the UFC is the big dog. Maybe it won't always be, but right now, it is. It happens to be an American based promotion.

The point isn't whether it's American or not, and I don't think Buka intended to suggest that all of the athletes in the UFC are from the USA. There are a lot of great fighters from all over the world.

Yeah the ufc will not be around forever. It's already going downhill fast. Before ufc was where everyone wanted to be now fighters are asking to leave the ufc to fight elsewhere because they're not being treated right and yeah the ufc are doing good ppv numbers but a lot of their free cards numbers are awful because they don't get promoted and a lot of fighters aren't getting the attention because they're focusing all their efforts on certain individuals. When mcgreggor and rousey are finished the ufc is going to be in trouble

 

[Hanzou]

I'm looking forward to her return. I'll gladly take some female grappling and ground fighting over 3-5 rounds of dancing around the octagon any day.

More grappling in women MMA please!!

 

[Headhunter]

I'm looking forward to her return. I'll gladly take some female grappling and ground fighting over 3-5 rounds of dancing around the octagon any day.

More grappling in women MMA please!!

Yes I'm sure you would you'd rather lay and prey as long as its on the ground it's amazing right

 

[Tez3]

Yeah the ufc will not be around forever. It's already going downhill fast. Before ufc was where everyone wanted to be now fighters are asking to leave the ufc to fight elsewhere because they're not being treated right and yeah the ufc are doing good ppv numbers but a lot of their free cards numbers are awful because they don't get promoted and a lot of fighters aren't getting the attention because they're focusing all their efforts on certain individuals. When mcgreggor and rousey are finished the ufc is going to be in trouble

It's the way of business, a company can start by being the 'biggest and best' but sooner or later other companies catch up and the original company isn't quite the shining star it started out as, especially if they don't treat their employees properly. As the UFC has got bigger and bigger it's has been diluting the product, more and more fight nights means it's got more common so sooner or later every MMA fighter will have had a fight and been able to say they've fought on UFC. Instead they should stay with elite fights so that fighters aspire to it rather than just look at it as a once great thing, but then all empires fall eventually, they all overreach usually through greed.

 

[Steve]

Yeah the ufc will not be around forever. It's already going downhill fast. Before ufc was where everyone wanted to be now fighters are asking to leave the ufc to fight elsewhere because they're not being treated right and yeah the ufc are doing good ppv numbers but a lot of their free cards numbers are awful because they don't get promoted and a lot of fighters aren't getting the attention because they're focusing all their efforts on certain individuals. When mcgreggor and rousey are finished the ufc is going to be in trouble

Time will tell, but I don't think this is a given. The UFC is a pretty well established brand at this point. Saying you fought in the UFC is like saying you played football in the NFL. You may have been 3rd string, but that's still head and shoulders above most people.

It's possible that a European or Asian promotion will emerge, but it seems that they are either too poorly run, too corrupt or lack the regulatory oversight to compete long term. The UFC is well managed, well funded, has promoted a consistent brand, and works within a pretty well established regulatory system here in the USA. They have young fighters always being brought in from other promotions, and never seem to lack local talent when hosting an event overseas.

I think they need to pay the fighters more money, but it's hard to get too much traction there because they pay more than any other promotion... at least any that are still around.

Bringing this back to the Rousey discussion, the biggest thing Rousey did is to pave the way for other women to make six figures doing what they love to do. Tata, Zingano, even Cyborg. They are making good money because of Ronda. Even the lower level fighters, who are getting paid $12k per fight or so, are going to be able to leverage their UFC experience into endorsements and enrollment at their gyms... which means making a good living.

 

[Hanzou]

Yes I'm sure you would you'd rather lay and prey as long as its on the ground it's amazing right

Women grapplers don't tend to lay and pray. Due to their size, they tend to hunt for submissions. When submissions fail, they start pounding face.

Just check out MacKenzie Dern's MMA debut and her second fight. I don't see how you could call either fights boring if you appreciate the art of fighting.

 

[Buka]

I doubt the UFC is going anywhere. Although USA based, they're a true global commodity. No surprise people are looking to go to other organizations, if you want to fight, you have to fight somewhere if it's not in the UFC. As big as it is, there's still only so many spots. And there's new fighters coming out of the woodwork from all over the place.

Never intended to think Rousey was the only pioneer, all the gals Tez refers to are true pioneers as well. My own particular favorite is Kathy Long, of kickboxing. One of the best all around Martial Artists I've ever met. Had two MMA fights, too. Her last at the age of 51, which she won. Some felt it wrong to let a woman that old fight. I didn't think it was fair, either - to her opponent. Poor kid.

 

[Tez3]

At some point the UFC will probably be overtaken by another promotion ( the new owners may not be as efficient as the old for a start) , it's the way of business, they flow but they also ebb. It is in danger of doing too much as I said, so that every fighter will soon be able to say they were on the UFC. Too many shows will make the public blasé about it, especially when the match making isn't good and the pay per view expensive as are the tickets themselves. Far better to have fewer fight nights but keep up the quality and promote it as being the elite.
It's not quite as global as you may think though, still a lot of work to get Africa, Russia, the Middle East, Far East, most of Europe and South America on board rather than just having one or two shows in a couple of countries. That looks good on the statistics of course but masks the fact that there's loads of countries where they don't have the UFC. MMA is still a niche sport in many countries, it hasn't broken into the public awareness. It can be very hard to get MMA publicised even for the UFC. You have to bear in mind too that the female fights including Rousey's will not be shown in certain countries, nor will there be female fighters from those countries. Yet another fight for WMMA to win.

 

[Buka]

I don't know, over twenty countries, and climbing, sounds pretty global to me.

But I worry about over saturation as well. I agree, I'd rather have fewer fight nights and have them promote it as elite. I worry about these things because I really like watching fights. Any fights, really, but especially MMA because it allows a wider range of things to use. To me, it represents more varied techniques from more styles than anything other form of sport fighting.

And I particularly love women's MMA. First thing I do when a card is on is to search for any women's matches.

 

[Tez3]

I don't know, over twenty countries, and climbing, sounds pretty global to me.

But I worry about over saturation as well. I agree, I'd rather have fewer fight nights and have them promote it as elite. I worry about these things because I really like watching fights. Any fights, really, but especially MMA because it allows a wider range of things to use. To me, it represents more varied techniques from more styles than anything other form of sport fighting.

And I particularly love women's MMA. First thing I do when a card is on is to search for any women's matches.

There's over 50 countries in Europe alone.......... so 20 countries worldwide doesn't make global especially as they now getting rid of staff all over the place.

 

[Buka]

Gegard Mousasi on Rousey, and women fighting in general. What an asshat.

Gegard Mousasi says Ronda Rousey media machine is out of control