Roundhouse kick
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Kwanjang
3rd Black Belt
It's all about correct overall body mechanics folks! Using your whole body in correct sequence to attain power. Throwing your rear arm down (as commonly seen in muay thai) away from the kick is counter productive to the kick. The pivot or twisting of the leg should be in harmony with the chamber and the extension of the kick. Try roundhouse kicking over the back of the chair. It will help your "direction of force." and keep kicking the heavy bag. Keep your hands up- in your eye shine and throw your shoulder into it as well. Remember power is a sequence that occurs from the ground up. With speed comes power. Before you can have speed, you have to have functionality (form) then comes power. Like my friend zDom said, The study was BS and wasn't a large enough sample to substantiate that claim. I practice the round house kick using a large as possible leg mechanic, creating a "whipping action" incorporating as many muscles as I can. Hit the heavy bag. By the way, the hardest shots I have been hit with are the ones I never saw coming!
Lol we've been taught to not swing our arms around while kicking. so yeah pulling back of the arm not a problem. and my pivot doesnt stop throughout the kick. Kinda smooth. but yah we've been taught the front-kick-type of chamber turning kick. lift up turn in with knee pointing at 90 deg then snap. in 1 smooth action. doesn't seem to work well for me though. ill probably switch back to the circular one. no point being fast if it doesnt generate enough power.
Kwanjang
3rd Black Belt
I disagree.It's a law of physics. Speed x Mass x Acceleration = Power. Once again, the faster you hit something with great form (including the upper body- part of the mass) the harder you hit it.
So kick the heavy bag and then kick it some more. BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
Another angle to look at this from is weight training...you may want to start working on the strength of your legs. The mechanics of the kick is a good portion of the effectiveness of the kick, but to generate the power you're looking for, you'll need to have strong legs.
Try doing squats for weight training and an exercise that I know and love as the leapfrog...put your hands behind your back, squat down, and spring up and forward, landing back in squating position. That will build strength and endurance in your legs, and I think you'll find that you'll be able to generate power in any type of kick.
Try doing squats for weight training and an exercise that I know and love as the leapfrog...put your hands behind your back, squat down, and spring up and forward, landing back in squating position. That will build strength and endurance in your legs, and I think you'll find that you'll be able to generate power in any type of kick.
As far as styled kicks go, and which is more effective, I think there are too many variables involved to know which kick is better. It's too much like trying to compare the martial arts themselves...there is no way to know which martial art is superior, in my opinion at least. To me, there's too much to look at and too many variables.
The kick itself should be comfortable enough to throw so that you can concentrate on generating max power into the kick...so try strength training on top of technique training.
The kick itself should be comfortable enough to throw so that you can concentrate on generating max power into the kick...so try strength training on top of technique training.
zDom
Senior Master
One thing to consider, though:
Heavy bag training IS strength training, and strength training specifically FOR kicks.
So to develop (and maintain) powerful roundhouse, yep: doing the HUGE exaggerated motion.
In sparring do I use this huge motion? Rarely. But having TRAINED a large, powerful range of motion, ALL my roundhouse kicks ended up being more powerful — even those with smaller ranges of motion.
(For example, one of the easiest ways to score with roundhouse to the head: front kick (or feint front kick) to the belt into a roundhouse to the head. It ends up being very much like other described above: coming from a front-kick type position, then rolling the hips over with an extension of the lower leg to finish the kick.)
Coming up through the ranks, I never had a problem with not having enough power in roundhouses — my problem was always inadvertently hitting opponents too hard.
Through continued training I eventually developed enough focus that I could snap out that kick to just barely touch the opponent. But it only takes the decision to penetrate to smoke 'em hard with it, if there is a need to.
Heavy bag training IS strength training, and strength training specifically FOR kicks.
So to develop (and maintain) powerful roundhouse, yep: doing the HUGE exaggerated motion.
In sparring do I use this huge motion? Rarely. But having TRAINED a large, powerful range of motion, ALL my roundhouse kicks ended up being more powerful — even those with smaller ranges of motion.
(For example, one of the easiest ways to score with roundhouse to the head: front kick (or feint front kick) to the belt into a roundhouse to the head. It ends up being very much like other described above: coming from a front-kick type position, then rolling the hips over with an extension of the lower leg to finish the kick.)
Coming up through the ranks, I never had a problem with not having enough power in roundhouses — my problem was always inadvertently hitting opponents too hard.
Through continued training I eventually developed enough focus that I could snap out that kick to just barely touch the opponent. But it only takes the decision to penetrate to smoke 'em hard with it, if there is a need to.
zDom
Senior Master
Why not?
It IS a very similar motion except parallel to the ground instead of perpendicular.
Soccer players kick that way because it enables them to kick HARDER. If they could kick harder and further using a straight leg, don't you think they would?
I suspect many people believe the straight legged roundhouse is "more powerful" because they are able to begin generating power like that almost immediately.
And, I guess, for those who don't have time to REFINE their kicking, it is an acceptable method. After all in some sense, having all that power is kind of overkill.
But for those willing and able to dedicate the time to refining their kicks to maximize power, there are benefits. Having way too much power at your disposals means, I believe, that you can be confident you will come up with ENOUGH power in a pinch.
In any case, rocking a heavy bag is extremely gratifying. It feels ... GOOD.
A side note:
I was just reminiscing the other day with Kwanjang about the first time he showed me the hook kick.
"How does ANYBODY get any power out of THAT?" I asked. It felt weak.
Within two years I was getting in trouble for hitting people too hard with it while sparring
Some techniques take some time and training to really develop their potential.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
Why not?
It IS a very similar motion except parallel to the ground instead of perpendicular.
Soccer players kick that way because it enables them to kick HARDER. If they could kick harder and further using a straight leg, don't you think they would?
I suspect many people believe the straight legged roundhouse is "more powerful" because they are able to begin generating power like that almost immediately.
And, I guess, for those who don't have time to REFINE their kicking, it is an acceptable method. After all in some sense, having all that power is kind of overkill.
But for those willing and able to dedicate the time to refining their kicks to maximize power, there are benefits. Having way too much power at your disposals means, I believe, that you can be confident you will come up with ENOUGH power in a pinch.
In any case, rocking a heavy bag is extremely gratifying. It feels ... GOOD.
A side note:
I was just reminiscing the other day with Kwanjang about the first time he showed me the hook kick.
"How does ANYBODY get any power out of THAT?" I asked. It felt weak.
Within two years I was getting in trouble for hitting people too hard with it while sparring
Some techniques take some time and training to really develop their potential.
I agree with this as well...working out on a heavy bag is an excellent way to build up strength in your kicks. If you combine 30 minutes of kicking a heavy back a day with 30 minutes of weight training a day, you're bound to see results.
Duno, just don't feel natural and comfortable tucking in all the way, feels very forced, I don't chamber all the way in, calf 90 deg to thigh. Plus I prefer lifting up forward instead of tucking in in backwards. [that's what i understand from your description, lifting backwards before kicking]
Forgot to include something, and can't edit -_- . anyway do you guys bend your supporting knee or keep it straight/nearly straight when kicking? By bending my knee I get a louder sound on the heavy bag, but it strains the muscles around it, especially for a heavyweight like me.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
This is where strength training would really help you out...
Your supporting leg should be slightly bent, in a natural bend....if you lock your knee, and you were kicked in that leg, you'll crash like a sack-o'-taters.
I'm a heavyweight...I'm 6'2", 290 lbs...so I know how hard it is to keep that leg under you bent. But being a bigger guy allows me to use my weight to my advantage by putting all of the weight into the kick. If you have good muscle control, this will allow you to have the accuracy along with the power of the kick.
Of course, the mechanics of the kick are very important, but to me, I would consider that part of the mechanics.
actually, in wtf sparring, what angle should/must the roundhouse kick contact with the body in order to score?
my main concern is not just about the kick itself, but kicking after shifting, or sidestepping, or for eg switch-kicking, instead of switching sides first then front leg, like for example, I perform somewhat like a jumping roundhouse but not really a jumping roundhouse, while the back leg launches into a roundhouse, my front leg shifts back. (confusing i know) It tends to generate a lot less force when the kick isn't grounded. =| Like it's just using the kicking leg to push off from the ground for acceleration, and the snap for added force. Hardly any chance to kick from a grounded position in wtf sparring against top-notch players(very often in Singapore, it's just straight nationals, no state no nth, so it's very common to face national fighters in tournaments). So I guess the most efficient way to generate sufficient power to score in these cases is to refine the snapping motion? Plus it's kinda difficult to hit at 90 degrees.
my main concern is not just about the kick itself, but kicking after shifting, or sidestepping, or for eg switch-kicking, instead of switching sides first then front leg, like for example, I perform somewhat like a jumping roundhouse but not really a jumping roundhouse, while the back leg launches into a roundhouse, my front leg shifts back. (confusing i know) It tends to generate a lot less force when the kick isn't grounded. =| Like it's just using the kicking leg to push off from the ground for acceleration, and the snap for added force. Hardly any chance to kick from a grounded position in wtf sparring against top-notch players(very often in Singapore, it's just straight nationals, no state no nth, so it's very common to face national fighters in tournaments). So I guess the most efficient way to generate sufficient power to score in these cases is to refine the snapping motion? Plus it's kinda difficult to hit at 90 degrees.
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There's no prescribed angle for scoring. If you can get your ffot on the hogu or the head with sufficient power, then you should score. You should learn to generate speed and power from ALL angles and at ALL heights. That'll make you a dangerous opponent. In the end it's just time and repetition.
Peace,
Erik
Peace,
Erik
zDom
Senior Master
If I am understanding you correctly, the position is what you are thinking except the leg is held PARALLEL to the ground (ankle as high as the knee) instead of perpendicular (ankle under the knee).
So very similar mechanics, but leg held in different position. Like Josh said, like you kicking over the back of a chair.
As this recruits more muscle groups, you can even get knockout power out of a front leg roundhouse. Quadriceps are large, strong muscles. It's GOOD to use them.
zDom
Senior Master
Yes, SHOULD.
But my observations have shown my judges are biased toward specific kicks and against others.
Fortunately as it pertains to this conversation, they are biased toward "roundhouse" kicks which apparently can include arc kicks, low section crescent kicks and actual roundhouse kicks, in what I understand to be Olympic style terminology.
Something is wrong with me. Whenever I do a left roundhouse[my dominant kicker is the right leg], against the air it's perfectly fine, technique and all. But when it comes to the heavybag, I don't know if it's because I'm trying too hard to kick fast n hard[if I apply the 'front chamber' type of kick there's a clear sharp sound when I snap my kick, but bag doesn't swing hard, so I use the more circular 1], due to slippery floor, or due to exhaustion[can't recall, but I think it starts after I start sweating, my heavybag is in a small room with only the door as an opening, with a fan inside, don't know if it affects rate of exhaustion], I LOSE MY BALANCE!
I'm wondering right now if, the clear sharp sound without much swing or the swinging bag is receiving more force, or rather, more efficient, because it seems to me like the bag is more of "pushed" so that it swings although there's a loud sound as well, but recovery time definitely longer, and eats my stamina faster. It's like, a punch producing a louder and sharper sound seems more powerful than a punch which produces a diffused sound but pushes the bag more, at least that's what I think.
and zDom, I agree, lol. And it looks like because of that, most people train roundhouse roundhouse roundhouse, even when the opponent is up close or facing forward[as in the front is open, they tend to fire roundhouses to the side instead of using front kicks or side kicks. Well it seems that way in Singapore. I should really train to exploit this general weakness. >_>
I'm wondering right now if, the clear sharp sound without much swing or the swinging bag is receiving more force, or rather, more efficient, because it seems to me like the bag is more of "pushed" so that it swings although there's a loud sound as well, but recovery time definitely longer, and eats my stamina faster. It's like, a punch producing a louder and sharper sound seems more powerful than a punch which produces a diffused sound but pushes the bag more, at least that's what I think.
and zDom, I agree, lol. And it looks like because of that, most people train roundhouse roundhouse roundhouse, even when the opponent is up close or facing forward[as in the front is open, they tend to fire roundhouses to the side instead of using front kicks or side kicks. Well it seems that way in Singapore. I should really train to exploit this general weakness. >_>
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