"Rock solid sword techniques"? I don't think so...

[Rich Parsons]

Yes, but honestly, I prefer the Hong Kong flashy weapons flying through the air approach, much more entertaining. And that's what that clip is teaching, entertainment, something which has been around just as long as any traditional style. Sword juggling, fire twirling, stage fighting, always been there and there will always be a place for it

While I enjoy watching a good flick.

I also enjoy watching stage stuff as well.


I think the issue is that most people do not understand that the XMA is stage performance. Some people might try this at home - aka videos sales - and hurt themselves.


I stopped by the local training troupe for the Ren Fest a couple of years ago. I could not get over all the mistakes I had to make to stage fight for the word of safety. While it may look cool, I did not agree with the techniques, and where opposite from where I wanted my training to go. So I only did not continue.


Now, I did like the link that Brian put up there, and it was very nice to see the effectiveness of basics.

 

[Andrew Green]

I think the issue is that most people do not understand that the XMA is stage performance. Some people might try this at home - aka videos sales - and hurt themselves.

Can't blame the people that do it right for the people that watch at home. Same could be said for the traditional stuff, which is more likely to encourage live blades, or other dangerous sports... pretty much any "trick" based sport.

I also really doubt that ANYONE believe this is "real" sword fighting and not stage work.

 

[Chris deMonch]

I also really doubt that ANYONE believe this is "real" sword fighting and not stage work.

You'd be surprised. I'm a great big manga nerd, and I've seen people coming into the dojo with outlandish concepts even by my standards. As to traditional dojo using live blades for training, we ARE learning how these weapons are actually used. If you're worried about cutting yourself on a live blade, there's always habiki or bokuto, or even iaito. However, if you're training in any bladed weapon art, you should go into it expecting that you'll get cut once in a while. It's just the nature of what you're training with and why you need to learn to be careful with it. In that context it makes sense to use them and learning all the inherent dangers that come with them. What no school of koryu budo is going to do, however, is treat the sword like a baton. Comparing training and safety in combatative heiho and XMA is really apples and oranges.

 

[Andrew Green]

apples and oranges.

That's about it, XMA and classical sword styles are completely different and should not be compared. But both have a place and for one to knock the other looks silly. Like a tour de france competitor taking shots at BMX guys as it is not "Real" or vice versa...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

That's about it, XMA and classical sword styles are completely different and should not be compared. But both have a place and for one to knock the other looks silly. Like a tour de france competitor taking shots at BMX guys as it is not "Real" or vice versa...

Yes it is very hard to compare the two. One was designed for war and the other is designed for show or hollywood.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[pgsmith]

Like a tour de france competitor taking shots at BMX guys as it is not "Real" or vice versa...

I agree Andrew, except the analogy isn't quite right. In my mind it is more like a working cowboy taking shots at the folks doing tricks on their horses at the circus. While both involve horseback riding, one has traditional skills that are actually used, while the other has skills that are strictly for entertainment.

The extreme martial arts folks and karate tournament weapons kata are flashy, fancy, and look really difficult to me. Sorta like professional gymnastics. However, they are for entertainment purposes only, which the traditional arts are not. Many people that study the traditional arts get quite upset by the baton twirling stuff in the XMA. I can understand it as most that study the traditional arts put in a lot of effort and make many sacrifices in order to study their art. Many are also irritated by the fact that most people think that the XMA stuff is real. However, I always advise those that get upset by it to remember that they are training for their own benefit, and for the benefit of their ryu. Whatever anyone else does or thinks is irrelevant as long as it doesn't affect your own training.

Many of the koryu in the Japanese sword arts have been around for several hundred years. As long as people continue to dedicate themselves to the ryu, they will continue to be around long after we're dead and forgotten.

 

[Kreth]

The extreme martial arts folks and karate tournament weapons kata are flashy, fancy, and look really difficult to me. Sorta like professional gymnastics.

And here your analogy falls apart. Gymkata proved once and for all that gymnastics is really a deadly martial art in disguise... :uhyeah:

 

[Cryozombie]

I agree Andrew, except the analogy isn't quite right. In my mind it is more like a working cowboy taking shots at the folks doing tricks on their horses at the circus. While both involve horseback riding, one has traditional skills that are actually used, while the other has skills that are strictly for entertainment.

I think the issue comes from "public" perception that they are the same.

You think that "Working Cowboys" would like people to think that what they do is the same as what a "Circus Cowboy" does since they both ride horses and have 6 shooters?

Or that MMA is as fake as Pro Wrestling, since both are done in a ring in an arena?

Or that Bujinkan Guys do what Sho Kosugi does since both use the term ninja?

Or that Johnny Depp played a believable Pirate? (sorry, had to get that in there)

It's hard to look at somthing you do with all seriousness... somthing that is your passion and you give your LIFE to... and then some assclown comes along with his fake and shiny glitter version of it giving people the perception that is what YOU do... without making you a bitty bit Irked.

It's all Ego, to be sure... but sometimes its hard to set that ego aside where your passion is concerned.

 

[Andrew Green]

It's all Ego, to be sure... but sometimes its hard to set that ego aside where your passion is concerned.

Yup, absolutely.

But, it comes to everyone at some point. Most of the people that call the flashy stuff "Ineffective playing" get upset when MMA, BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestlers, Boxers, etc. Say the same things about what they are doing.

All styles are fine, just for different goals and purposes.

And I don't care if Jack Sparow is unrealistic, it's a damn good character

 

[Jimi]

I can understand that XMA are for show and entertainment. Again many people don't have similar insights as we do as Martial Artists. Flipping a sword is great showmanship, it is absolutley not swordsmanship as some XMA's would have people believe. Many of these XMA practitioners may become the stunt-men/women and movie heroes of the future. I would trust they will amaze people with flips, acrobatics and stunts. I do not expect that any of them could pass on Martial Content from anything they perform. It is obvious that XMA practitioners, while very talented and athletic, are not trained to understand or teach the true function of such weapons or emptyhand tech's. I can enjoy the show so to speak, but when it is presented as true MAs, I choke on it. Seeing a boy in a hakama flipping a sword, or nun-chaku, or sai, or kama etc... reminds me of a child dressed as a cowboy with a hat and 6 shooters yelling BANG BANG! All show. Sadly too many people will see this showy and empty performance and believe it to be true MAs. I have said it before, My instructors are rolling over in their graves, yelling why are you killing my art? The answer is , XMA practitioners and the like believe this will get them into movies and they will be the next Van Dam, Seagal etc... PEACE

 

[Cryozombie]

And I don't care if Jack Sparow is unrealistic, it's a damn good character

Off Topic, but if by "Damn Good" you mean "Eplileptic with Palsy who had a Stroke and Mumbles a lot"