Robber takes on martial artist (video)

[WC_lun]

Personally, I am against anything that puts me more at risk or limits my ability to act once I am at risk. This is NOT to say that punching the guy would have ended up any safer, but purposely going to the ground was not the best option in my opinion. Wrestlers are pretty darn good at take downs. I think it would have been best just to dump the guy on the ground, but keep standing. In real life everything is situational dependant. The possible addition of robber's buddies should have been taken into account.

Also, keep in mind that everyone has thier bit of advice. However, its a completely different animal when your the one in the tussel and adrenaline is flowing. I'm just glad the fellow is health after the encounter.

 

[Steve]

I think we all need to remember two things. This was real life, and it worked.

Seems like there's a lot of going back and talking about shouldas and couldas, but this was a real self defense situation and while a lot of things could have happened, they didn't.

 

[lklawson]

Well, Steve kinda beat me to this, but just my +1 here.

I keep seeing a lot of folks taking about how the fella was "lucky" and he should have done X instead or that the bad guy's friends "might have" or "could have" whatever. The bottom line is, he didn't get "lucky" because, frankly, what he did worked. And, to be honest, as I track these sort of things, I find that "going to the ground" is documented to work more and more often.

I hazard that what we are seeing is a subtle shift in culture back toward grappling.

Here's an article I wrote that touches on the subject: http://cbd.atspace.com/articles/90percentmyth/90percentmyth.html

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Cyriacus]

Personally, I just feel that He could have done more once He got to the Ground.

 

[punisher73]

A "white Lincoln SUV"? Not a likely get away car for a Robbery. Guess they needed gas money...

Most of the thugs around here drive around in big SUV's of all makes and models. Not very uncommon at all.

 

[punisher73]

I think we all need to remember two things. This was real life, and it worked.

Seems like there's a lot of going back and talking about shouldas and couldas, but this was a real self defense situation and while a lot of things could have happened, they didn't.

Very true, but it doesn't mean that we can't look at the incident as a learning experience and things to consider. I think it is a very real "what if" to consider if it wasn't a robbery that they just wanted to get out of there and a regular confrontation and they see their friend down on the ground like that. It's stuff to consider, the fine line as you put it is not in armchair quarterbacking what was done because it did work for him.

 

[Steve]

Here's another one that happened in November. An armed robber in a hotel lobby. Two guys in town for a BJJ tournament end up subduing him. No punches thrown (that I could see).

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=905_1320631880

And another one where Ryan Hall remains calm and subdues a drunk guy who is extremely belligerent. This is a great video and again, remarkable because Ryan Hall doesn't throw one punch. And in this case, it actually helps him when he's talking to the cops.,

http://toshcommunity.comedycentral.com/Video/Drunk-guy-choked-unconcious-by-pro-BJJ-fighter/050BFFFFF02769648001B019417B8

I am not saying that grappling is better than (or worse than) striking or anything like that. I'm pointing out that real life situations are always unique, and are often not you against a gang of ninjas. I agree, punisher, that it can be interesting and useful to learn from these situations. But that's different from saying "should have" or "shouldn't have." Because ultimately, they did what they did, and in a world of infinite possibilities, it worked for them.

 

[Cyriacus]

I am not saying that grappling is better than (or worse than) striking or anything like that. I'm pointing out that real life situations are always unique, and are often not you against a gang of ninjas. I agree, punisher, that it can be interesting and useful to learn from these situations. But that's different from saying "should have" or "shouldn't have." Because ultimately, they did what they did, and in a world of infinite possibilities, it worked for them.

YES.
You touched a sweet spot for Me.
I can often get a bit riled over some people (Not so much on here. Just... the Internet) who treat Street Fights like Youre going to be against some kind of Super Warrior Ninja Killing Death Machine Of Doom.

 

[jasonbrinn]

First let me just say that I have trained BJJ for some 14 years and I love it.

Now let me say that a common exercise I do with my students is setup a self defense situation much like the videos posted except what they don't know is that their attacker has a practice knife pocketed and ready to use if they need to. 100% of the time the defender resorting to any kind of a "ground game" gets cut/stabbed in a bad way and they always stand up with both a surprised and understanding gaze.

BJJ works as does Savate, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, <insert art here> in the right circumstances, however real world self defense doesn't care about the circumstances.

The reason these techniques "worked" in the videos posted has more to do with the attackers intent level IMO then the defenders training.

 

[chinto]

I think we all need to remember two things. This was real life, and it worked.

Seems like there's a lot of going back and talking about shouldas and couldas, but this was a real self defense situation and while a lot of things could have happened, they didn't.

yes but when the friend comes to his robber buddies aid, I thought he was going to kick his head off for a second! It would have been very easy for him to do too. going to the ground on the street is not a good idea if you can avoid it.
You can say what you want, but if his buddy had kicked him in the head with say a work boot, the chances of survival was and is less then 50% in most cases. a hard kick with a boot will usually result in a closed head injury and a skull fracture, both very much life threatening!! In short he got very lucky not to end up dead or very badly hurt by going to the ground.

 

[Virtual Jim]

I'm surprised by this thread. The wrestler is doing what he should do, and you guys are criticizing him for it. Amazing.

We need more people like the wrestler in this country. Doesn't take it from filth, stands his ground (so to type), and does it in a basically non-violent way. We should all be praising him.

 

[Kenlee25]

People are raising alarm because he was trying to submit an opponent ( that is definitely not non violent ) and that if the guys friends were intent on beating him, he may be dead right now. He didn't take the other guy out fast enough when he had the advantage.

All you said was true, he stood his ground, but he could have handled it better. A school teacher does not praise you for getting a B- in his class, he tries to work with you so that you may next time get an A. As martial artists, we see that he handled himself well and looked fear in the face without blinking, but had he not been very lucky that the other two were not out to hurt him, he may be dead. On the streets, what he did was a B, he definitely and easily defeated the first guy. He would have lost eventually with almost no harm done to the wrestler. But he didn't get an A, because he forgot that on the streets there are always other threats.

Would you rather have an A or a B?

 

[chinto]

yep, and sometimes that B or even a B+ is a trip to the morgue in a bag with a toe tag on you.

 

[MJS]

I'm surprised by this thread. The wrestler is doing what he should do, and you guys are criticizing him for it. Amazing.

We need more people like the wrestler in this country. Doesn't take it from filth, stands his ground (so to type), and does it in a basically non-violent way. We should all be praising him.

No sir, I'm commenting on his choice of action. He didn't, IMO, do what he should do, he did what was natural to him, thus the 'you fight like you train' comments that you always see. I'm sorry, but there is a time and place for everything. Were those other 2 guys to start kicking the **** out of that kid, well, I think you see my point.

Make no mistake about it....I think that having experience on the ground is very important. But, IMO, you also have to use your head.

So, let me ask you, since you made the non violent way comment. Lets say for a moment that the other 2 goons never entered the picture. This kid takes the guy down. Ok, now what? Keep rolling on the ground? Submit him? Hold him long enough to verbally tell him that he was foolish for what he tried to do, and let him up? What happens when he stands back up? Does the guy, frustrated that he got taken down, turn and leave? Does he haul off and deck the kid?

 

[Steve]

yes but when the friend comes to his robber buddies aid, I thought he was going to kick his head off for a second! It would have been very easy for him to do too. going to the ground on the street is not a good idea if you can avoid it.
You can say what you want, but if his buddy had kicked him in the head with say a work boot, the chances of survival was and is less then 50% in most cases. a hard kick with a boot will usually result in a closed head injury and a skull fracture, both very much life threatening!! In short he got very lucky not to end up dead or very badly hurt by going to the ground.

You think that the chances of surviving a kick to the head are 50%? Don't you think that's a little hyperbolic?

 

[Steve]

No sir, I'm commenting on his choice of action. He didn't, IMO, do what he should do, he did what was natural to him, thus the 'you fight like you train' comments that you always see. I'm sorry, but there is a time and place for everything. Were those other 2 guys to start kicking the **** out of that kid, well, I think you see my point.

Make no mistake about it....I think that having experience on the ground is very important. But, IMO, you also have to use your head.

So, let me ask you, since you made the non violent way comment. Lets say for a moment that the other 2 goons never entered the picture. This kid takes the guy down. Ok, now what? Keep rolling on the ground? Submit him? Hold him long enough to verbally tell him that he was foolish for what he tried to do, and let him up? What happens when he stands back up? Does the guy, frustrated that he got taken down, turn and leave? Does he haul off and deck the kid?

I'd say in this case, you could subdue him until the police arrived or the situation changes.

Thing is, you guys are adding a lot of fiction to a nonfiction story. If you are inventing a hypothetical, then more power to you. But you guys don't know the whole story here. What we do know is that in this situation, as with the other two I linked, it worked. In real life.

 

[chinto]

You think that the chances of surviving a kick to the head are 50%? Don't you think that's a little hyperbolic?

where I live many men and even high school guys wear white boots and cowboy boots. At 16 if I kicked you in the head with a white smoke jumper boot while you were on the ground? I would say your chances of survival would have been closer to about 35% with out very very fast very definitive care, some of which did NOT exist then! when a hard logging boot meets head with a strong kick, well it is only in the movies you hit people on the head hard with a hard object and they do not die! best case it hits the face and fractures the sinuses and facial bones badly! ( I saw that kind of injury once in a fight back then .. so yes that happens and at least they were not corks!)

Oh and as an EMT I saw a few people who had bad fracture of even the femur from a kick from a pair of heavy boots! and that is the hardest bone to brake in the body.

 

[Steve]

where I live many men and even high school guys wear white boots and cowboy boots. At 16 if I kicked you in the head with a white smoke jumper boot while you were on the ground? I would say your chances of survival would have been closer to about 35% with out very very fast very definitive care, some of which did NOT exist then! when a hard logging boot meets head with a strong kick, well it is only in the movies you hit people on the head hard with a hard object and they do not die! best case it hits the face and fractures the sinuses and facial bones badly! ( I saw that kind of injury once in a fight back then .. so yes that happens and at least they were not corks!)

Oh and as an EMT I saw a few people who had bad fracture of even the femur from a kick from a pair of heavy boots! and that is the hardest bone to brake in the body.

I just don't believe it. I'm open to being proven wrong if you can provide some non anecdotal evidence. To be clear, I get that a kick to the head could be dangerous or deadly. I just don't believe that death, or even serious injury, from a single kick to the head is likely. Possible? Sure. Likely? I don't think so. I've seen too many people take serious blows to the head and not die.


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[Kenlee25]

The thing is, I think most people's natural reaction when on the ground getting pounded would be to cover their face so that they aren't stomped, Thereby limiting the area in which the kick can come. And a front kick to the head has a lot less power as opposed to a stomp.

Honestly though, with the skull being the harded bone in the body, I just don't see how a single kick can be that deadly when people suffer way worse injuries ( car crashes, conking their head on very hard objects, plane crashes, getting hit in the face with speeding baseballs, elbows straight to the face, repeated multiple hard punches from trained boxers, even bullets....BULLETS ).

 

[Cyriacus]

The thing is, I think most people's natural reaction when on the ground getting pounded would be to cover their face so that they aren't stomped, Thereby limiting the area in which the kick can come. And a front kick to the head has a lot less power as opposed to a stomp.

Honestly though, with the skull being the harded bone in the body, I just don't see how a single kick can be that deadly when people suffer way worse injuries ( car crashes, conking their head on very hard objects, plane crashes, getting hit in the face with speeding baseballs, elbows straight to the face, repeated multiple hard punches from trained boxers, even bullets....BULLETS ).

Ive asked Myself the same question.
What immediately comes to mind, is that unlike a punch or so forth, a stomp can force the head to the ground, compressing it, and/or damaging the neck if it wasnt already resting. A front kick will snap the head up, probably at an awekward angle, also offering potential to damage the neck. Were assuming the victim is on the ground, of course. The Jaw being broken is likely, but not exactly lethal.

I doubt itd just kill You outright. But it could damn well hospitalise You in a hurry.