Returning to martial arts. Can't make up my mind which.

[shaolin_al]

No I haven't signed up at this school, only spoken with the instructor. I was trying to get everyone's first impression from the site I listed, and the info I gave.

 

[blindsage]

They don't seemed to be prolific enought to be a true McDojo. But as for quality of instruction and whether or not they are a black belt factory, you can't tell anything from the website. I'm not a fan of contracts or additional fees for classes I think should be included, but that doesn't mean the instruction isn't quality.

Youn Wha Ryu sounds pretty shady to me. On their website history it says "The Youn Wha system contains all high level techniques from all systems and is unique in that no other system contains so many high level principles in one training method." Seriously? This is a tell tale sign of b.s. They also have a ton of schools. I'd say they are pretty much the definition of McDojo and you should most likely avoid them.

 

[shaolin_al]

I agree with everything you said Blindsage. Year agreements just always seem like a bad idea to me whether the instruction is quality or not. Also black belt clubs are always a tell-tale sign of Mcdojo'ism I think as well. However with the youn wha ryu they don't require contracts and from a video I saw their self-defense techniques didn't look too bad. Take a look, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmbgu-JRBCo&feature=related

 

[blindsage]

Honestly, those kind of 'self-defense' demonstrations are a flashing red light to me that a school is using flashy methods to impress uninformed viewers and not actually teaching their students practical, useful techniques for the real world. I would warn you against them even more after seeing that video.

 

[shaolin_al]

So would you recommend avoiding any schools with black belt clubs and year agreements, blindsage? Also what is your opinion on Tang Soo Do, 5 animals/Chen, or Kenpo?

 

[bowser666]

Honestly, those kind of 'self-defense' demonstrations are a flashing red light to me that a school is using flashy methods to impress uninformed viewers and not actually teaching their students practical, useful techniques for the real world. I would warn you against them even more after seeing that video.

I have to disagree with you there. Those techniques I thought were fairly straight forward and easy to execute. Obviously they are going to throw in some flashy stuff because it is a DEMO. AKA Marketing to gain new customers. The material and skill shown there is enough to convince me that there is skill there. Granted I woudl want to see more of what is in the curriculum but since there isn't any more info available then I would not say RUN ITS A MCDojo. It has its place depending on what you are looking for from training.

If it teaches good value to children, teens,. adults, and has some merit in its training then I see nothing wrong with it. Granted Black Belt clubs and contracts I don't agree with but its the customers choice to sign up or not.

 

[blindsage]

So would you recommend avoiding any schools with black belt clubs and year agreements, blindsage? Also what is your opinion on Tang Soo Do, 5 animals/Chen, or Kenpo?

I look at black belt clubs and year agreements as negative signs, but I have known good schools with both.

I don't have a lot of direct experience with TSD, but from what I know I believe you can expect a lot of kicking, like TKD, but with more hands, more self-defense, and more weapons.

Shaolin 5 animals can be good, but it can also be very weak and watered down without quality applications. I'm finding Chen Tai Chi to be very interesting, but quality teaching of martial applications is often missing in Tai Chi instruction.

Kenpo teaches all the basic stuff: hand strikes, kicks, standing takedowns, self-defense. They also spend time on fight strategy and situational awareness.

All of these can be good, but it is really a function of the quality of the teacher, and your personal preferences. I can't emphasize enough that quality of instruction is the most important factor, and second only to that is finding a style you enjoy. As others have said, going into the schools and seeing what they're about, and maybe trying a class, is really important.

 

[blindsage]

I have to disagree with you there. Those techniques I thought were fairly straight forward and easy to execute. Obviously they are going to throw in some flashy stuff because it is a DEMO. AKA Marketing to gain new customers. The material and skill shown there is enough to convince me that there is skill there. Granted I woudl want to see more of what is in the curriculum but since there isn't any more info available then I would not say RUN ITS A MCDojo. It has its place depending on what you are looking for from training.

If it teaches good value to children, teens,. adults, and has some merit in its training then I see nothing wrong with it. Granted Black Belt clubs and contracts I don't agree with but its the customers choice to sign up or not.

What I mean by 'flashy' technique is the way they perform the SD applications. Fast, with often unfinished movements (that make them ineffective in a real scenario), with a willing and forgiving opponent that doesn't require them to actually make the technique work, but falls for them, and off of single attack moves with no follow up or resistance from the opponent. This is not self-defense. I don't believe in this kind of 'self-defense' training or demonstration. I believe this is the definition of giving people a false sense of security and portraying b.s. to the public as useful SD skills. If you train with an uncooperative training partner then you know that this is far from any kind of self-defense reality. (And no, I'm not talking about actually punching people in the face or breaking their knees. I'm talking about follow up attacks, a lack of cooperation with takedowns- so they actually have to be done well- etc.)

And if you had read my previous post you would know that I'm not calling in a McDojo based on just that video, check out their website http://www.younwha.com/

 

[shaolin_al]

I have to agree with you both. I understand what kind of demos you are talking about blindsage. I have seen some schools though that teach good self-defense to it's students but in their demos do the same thing as that video. It's very rare unfortunately nowadays because lots of schools even if they are legit are showing the demos to usually families of students etc.. I think that just among other members of your dojo/school you will demo the techniques more thoroughly. From what i've found a lot of places don't do follow through in their attacks in demos like that video, except maybe krav maga and MMA. Out of the videos i've seen online that video was actually pretty decent even in that setting. Also blindsage years back I studied Sun Style Baguazhang. Which style do you study?

 

[blindsage]

My sifu has trained in a couple of different style and he blends some of the teaching, but the bio on our school's website is succinct,

"Dale's Bagua teachers include Tchoung Ta Tchen (Shang Tung Method), Pang Tse Yao (Six Harmonies Method), and Zhang Jie (Cheng Ting Hua Liu Bin Nine Palace Method). Though his emphasis is on the Cheng Ting Hua Bagua Methods he also researches and practices Fu Bagua."