Responding vs. Reacting

[chinaboxer]

this is a concept that i feel is lacking during sensitivity training, so i thought i would make a video on the subject. although this is primarily for the wing chunners, i thought that it might help a few out here as well, take care and peace!

Jin


http://www.thechinaboxer.com/2009/10...g-vs-reacting/

 

[simplicity]

Nice that you put out a clip... Being that this is a Jeet Kune Do forum and not WC... I must say, a JKD man/woman and I do mean JKD man/woman would never push downward with their responce... You would get hint upside the head.... This is just one example where most think that the two arts are the same and they are not.... Classical vs Non-Classical comes to mind here....


But thanks, for sharing what you do....




Keep "IT" Real,
John McNabney

 

[chinaboxer]

thanks, the reason i posted it in the JKD section as well, is because many Jun Fan JKD practitioners practice dan chi sau and i figured it might help someone get a new perspective on the drill.

and i think what you are referring to is the "jum sau" which is not a "pushing downward movement". this is also how it was taught to us by Dan Inosanto and Yori Nakamura in the Jun Fan JKD curriculum at the Academy, maybe i read your comment incorrectly?

 

[simplicity]

Downward energy is just that, downward...Call it what you want....Maybe push was a bad choice of word on my part.... JKD isn't WC nor is WC, JKD.... They fight differently



Keep "IT" Real,
John McNabney

 

[kaizasosei]

Why not push down if you need to do that? As long as you regain the upper hand you should be fine. I just didn't like much how you were showing the slowness and saying the slowness.- But i find interesting and i like how you brush out the energies like massage and use visualizion to guide.

-At first i instinctively thought that responding was better than reacting...in more ways that one. Then, sometime at the beginning, either i misunderstood or you said the wrong thing by accident? i might have to watch one more time. That caused me to not understand-misunderstand and i got bored about a third of the vid. But i kept watching and somethime after the middle, i felt that what you were saying made sense and it was very useful teaching. Especially i find thought provoking, the concept of having the time and space to responsd rather than an react in an uncontrolled way.
sweet vid great martial arts principles


j

 

[chinaboxer]

Why not push down if you need to do that? As long as you regain the upper hand you should be fine. I just didn't like much how you were showing the slowness and saying the slowness.- But i find interesting and i like how you brush out the energies like massage and use visualizion to guide.

-At first i instinctively thought that responding was better than reacting...in more ways that one. Then, sometime at the beginning, either i misunderstood or you said the wrong thing by accident? i might have to watch one more time. That caused me to not understand-misunderstand and i got bored about a third of the vid. But i kept watching and somethime after the middle, i felt that what you were saying made sense and it was very useful teaching. Especially i find thought provoking, the concept of having the time and space to responsd rather than an react in an uncontrolled way.
sweet vid great martial arts principles


j

lol..yea, i do have a bad habit of rambling on sometimes.

 

[James Kovacich]

Nice that you put out a clip... Being that this is a Jeet Kune Do forum and not WC... I must say, a JKD man/woman and I do mean JKD man/woman would never push downward with their responce... You would get hint upside the head.... This is just one example where most think that the two arts are the same and they are not.... Classical vs Non-Classical comes to mind here....


But thanks, for sharing what you do....




Keep "IT" Real,
John McNabney

Thanks John, that type of energy, has made some of my Eskrima training hard to swallow at times. But sometimes the ends justifies the means. But it's Eskrima, not JKD.

In Sifu Felix's garage I enjoyed the time that we had when local Wing Chunners joined in. People don't no that much about Sifu Felix because they are low key and I'm the only one that probably ever let the "cat out of the bag."

But if there is a BLS's path that is somewhat similar to the Macias's. I believe it would be either Jim Demile or Jesse Glover. But Felix Macias Sr. told me once that someone told him that he (Felix Sr.) reminded him of Jerry Poteet. I can't say, I'm not the one that said it.

 

[joeygil]

I always thought of reacting as your reflex, such as flinching at a punch thrown at you. While responding is more of a proactive useful action. I figured the point of sensitivity training is make your reactions into useful responses.

That said, the "downward" motion is part of the dan chi sau, and transitional. It's immediately followed by a vertical punch. That is how Sifu Yori teaches it, but it's not taught as combative, merely a sensitivity drill. Nobody expects a dan chi sau style attack.

 

[chinaboxer]

I always thought of reacting as your reflex, such as flinching at a punch thrown at you. While responding is more of a proactive useful action. I figured the point of sensitivity training is make your reactions into useful responses.

That said, the "downward" motion is part of the dan chi sau, and transitional. It's immediately followed by a vertical punch. That is how Sifu Yori teaches it, but it's not taught as combative, merely a sensitivity drill. Nobody expects a dan chi sau style attack.

hey Joey, why does your name sound so familiar to me? hmm..anyways, this is going to pain me to say, because i love Yori, i used to call him the "iceman" because his techniques were flawless...

but the way sensitivity drills are taught at the academy is extremely basic in nature, and done without the understanding of the wing chun "structure". and without that knowledge, the drill is rather pointless. Yori doesn't go into deep explanation of the drill, he just shows you the movements and you practice it for what, ten minutes at the very end of training? it's just, "you do this, and i do that" while me make "contact" with each other, but this is NOT sensitivity training. i know that i will probably take some hits for this, but again, this is only MY opinion, from MY experiences training with Yori and training with Hawkins Cheung.

and when you understand "sensitivity drills" it is VERY combative and directly related to close in combat. the problem is you don't see it because you're not taught to see it.

anyways, i made a video about "why sensitivity drills such as dan chi and chi sau are important". you can check out the two part video here...

http://www.thechinaboxer.com/2009/09/05/why-chi-sau-training-is-important-part-1/

http://www.thechinaboxer.com/2009/09/05/why-chi-sau-training-is-important-part-2/

 

[Steve Grody]

thanks, the reason i posted it in the JKD section as well, is because many Jun Fan JKD practitioners practice dan chi sau and i figured it might help someone get a new perspective on the drill.

and i think what you are referring to is the "jum sau" which is not a "pushing downward movement". this is also how it was taught to us by Dan Inosanto and Yori Nakamura in the Jun Fan JKD curriculum at the Academy, maybe i read your comment incorrectly?

It is VERY useful to note that there are several versions of Jun Fan/JKD material that Dan or Yori would show. The "early version" material would include things like the Dan Chi (single sticking hand) drill and the traditional dummy set. In these cases, the the "jut sao" (jerk hand) done in a traditional way is indeed a downward pressure and is, as someone responded, vulnerable to getting hit upside the head. That is why the JKD jut sao is clearly modified: It is more of a "clutch" only slightly down and towards onself with a bit of grab to it to help prevent a disengagement (the thing that would get you hit). And of course there are many variations of a jut in the JKD curriculum (well over a dozen I like to show). The early versions were "thrown out" by Bruce, but kept at the Academy out of respect for the historical curriculum that Bruce taught

Steve Grody
stevegrody.com

 

[dungeonworks]

lol..yea, i do have a bad habit of rambling on sometimes.

But that is GOOD for people like me that need to hear things more than once or repitiously CB!!!