Reports of Sexual Assaults Blacken DragonCon.

[Touch Of Death]

See, this is exactly what I'm getting at. This sort of argument just places the blame on women for anything that happens to them. You are essentially saying "If you are afraid, it's your fault for being a victim and not doing something" and then you go on to say that the real ones to fear are other women. I don't know if you've noticed, but women don't rape and abuse each other nearly as often as men do to women. It is not a woman's fault when something does happen to her. But this argument puts the blame on her, and minimizes what happens.

I'm sure you don't intend to, but many of your arguments here are perfect examples of what I have been trying to say. They are stereotypical, minimizing, and victim blaming. Applied to women, that's misogyny. It doesn't mean you hate women or abuse them, but that's how the arguments you've been using stand. It's incumbent on all of us to understand how what we say comes across, and recognize our own blind spots and privileges. It is your privilege speaking when you say a woman has nothing to fear from a man, because generally speaking, you don't have much to fear from another man. If you ask women though, many will discuss a certain baseline level of fear or perhaps more appropriately caution around men they don't know. They are in fact not being a "victim" by being realistic and trying to avoid trouble. Telling them they have nothing to fear denies reality, and shifts blame onto those who do fear, and those who have been harmed by men.

So victim mentalities are excusable, and its OK to live in fear if you are a woman, but not as a nerd?
Sean

 

[Bob Hubbard]

All

to return to the original dilemma.

"At this point he started looking directly at my chest and saying vulgar things about it while another of his friends got on my left side and put his arm around my wiast from there. The rest of the group came up behind me with the one girl standing with the photographer for a moment before wandering around the otherside of the elevators (I think). At this point the guy on my right said something along the lines of he wanted to put his face in my cleavage (not the wording he used) & when I said no he argued with me & at that point I tried to extract myself with no luck; I can’t get away since they are all holding me. Next thing I know the guy on my left has his face in my chest and he’s licking and biting my left breast. Cue me freaking out since I’m alone with 15 guys holding me so I can’t leave & one has his face in my chest".

a very familiar and realistic situation. most often we are among men we either know or who are part of a group we are also part of - acquaintances or peers of some kind. sometimes we know some of them better than others. (Full disclosure - happened to me at a professional conference, dinner reception, cocktail party).

so, RBSD? from the perspective of male instructors this may seem an unusual situation. It is not that uncommon.

informed suggestions are welcome and appreciated, please indicate if suggestions are guesses/speculation or are based on actual experiences.

one stipulation please. Simply declaring 'don't be there' is not eligible and not useful. It happens under circumstances that are almost impossible to anticipate, most often when we are among men we would swear (in advance) we believe are incapable of doing this. Sometimes among strangers - but thats the least common.

many thanks, A

Step one would be prevention.

"Don't be there" is the universal comment. It fits, but needs explanation. Obviously, we can't insist our women stay home and keep the curtains closed, or only go out while accompnied by their husbands, or dress them up like ninja's in baggy clothes. (Refs and duh factor intentional)

So, step one would be try not to be in those situations in the first place.
- Don't go out unaccompanied. Always have someone with you.
- Don't go where people are getting drunk/stoned
- Be on guard at all times, Be aware of where you are at, and who is around you. (Hint: If you're always the one finding money you're doing good. If you're always with someone who finds money you didn't see, you need to work on your environmental awareness.)
- Have escape routes in mind. Know where the elevator, front desk, bouncer, etc are.
- Appear confident, don't lose your control. IE: Don't Panic.

There's a reason women hit the rest room together. It's got more to do with safety than the fact that they have a comfy couch and flat screen in there, and we're lucky there's ice in the urinal in the mens room.

My forte is avoiding getting into binds.

The problem is as was said, when you're with a group you trust and things turn bad, what do you do? In the event the situation with the woman getting her breasts bit had happened to me, I'd probably have panicked and started flailing and screaming. (Yes, I'm a guy, I'd scream like a teen girl. It's not manly, but people will look and hopefully intervene)

I'll differ to the experienced self-defense instructors on how to get out of the situation should you find yourself in it.

 

[jks9199]

Some options, because there is no universal answer:

1. Call 'em on their behavior. It's not a guarantee, but I've been amazed at how effective some women have been simply telling someone that they won't accept that sort of behavior, or asking if they'd talk to their mother like that. Even the classic slap across the face at the comment may have been enough to defuse the whole group...

2. Make the security personnel aware of the problem -- and demand they take action. From the sound of this, security was notable in their inaction and ineffectiveness here. I suspect I could add ignorance.

3. On the topic of security... When something gets as big as this con, you can't wing it. You can't use volunteers or convention staff that do it to get a free pass and some backstage glimpses. You have to actually hire professionals who know what they're doing, and will be there to do the job. I don't know whether this con did or not... but I've seen plenty of this sort of thing where they figure there's not much to security. There's a lot involved.

4. Don't wait for something to go as bad as the quote describes; the time to act was much earlier in the incident, and the victim showed a significant lack of awareness or sense of denial about the developing situation. And once it reaches a physical assault -- know and use effective self defense. In the quote -- the victim was sexually assaulted, and apparently didn't have a clue how to handle it.

5. The victim does get a hit here: Be aware of the signals you're sending, and ready for the response. I've seen people at renaissance festivals and fantasy/science fiction conventions act in ways and do things that they'd never ordinarily do... and they get lost if someone tries to take it beyond banter. Lots of the regular attendees may know the unwritten rule that the "saucy wench" or Orion slave girl is just putting on act... but a crasher (or even a non-regular) may not. I'm not blaming the victim or defending any one -- but if you choose to send a signal, be ready for it to be received.