Rear leg vs lead leg (skipping) side kick - which is harder and which is supposed to be harder ?

[InfiniteLoop]

I have know people who can throw a rear leg kick as fast and hard as most peoples skip.

Please, I'm blushing over here...

 

[isshinryuronin]

Here is the answer to the core question. The skipping lead leg side kick will land with greater force than a pivoting side kick with the rear leg. I think that by doing both on a heavy bag, the truth is obvious. There are a few reasons this is true.

The rear leg kick is being launched from more or less a static platform since the body is rooted by the supporting leg (pivoting it during the kick may give four inches of movement, but IMO, this is not significant). The skipping lead side kick is being launched from a platform moving toward the target a couple of feet or more. This adds to the speed of the kicking foot.

The speed of the skip itself is quite crisp and sudden (if done well), much faster than the speed of the rear leg being powered forward. The rear leg kick has just too far to travel and is easier to detect and evade. The required pivot and body turn itself is a huge tell.

Here is skip lead leg. I think you can get more of your weight to travel toward the target a greater distance more easily and coordinate that movement with the kick to ad power as opposed to using the rear leg. I think the difference may be in the skip with both feet on the ground as opposed to simply pushing off with one foot as the rear leg moves forward. I have no scientific justification - only experience.

This video clearly shows that the weight of the entire body is being delivered in the skipping side kick. With the rear leg kick, you have just the weight of the leg moving in, augmented by the (again, comparatively minor) power transfer afforded by the supporting leg's pivot.

I think any who still have doubts should actually compare the kicks on a heavy bag. Also, find video of Joe Lewis using the skipping side kick to bash in a number of people's ribs.

So, based on all this (and personal experience), I think the skipping side kick is faster, lands with greater impact, is more economical in motion, and is less detectable (especially if the lead foot "cheat" step is not taken as seen in the video).

 

[InfiniteLoop]

So, based on all this (and personal experience), I think the skipping side kick is faster, lands with greater impact, is more economical in motion, and is less detectable (especially if the lead foot "cheat" step is not taken as seen in the video).

But is based in a stance where that's the only powerful kick at your disposal. Every other kick is at a power disadvantage.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

Now I got them ready for a fair comparison.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Sir, do you have information on the tool they are using to hold the boards?

Yes, it is a holder we developed I call it the "Master Breaker" and I have plans. PM me your-mail and I will send them, it also has a wall mount variation. If you have the lumber cut for you it takes about an hour to assemble.

 

[Earl Weiss]

So, based on all this (and personal experience), I think the skipping side kick is faster, lands with greater impact, is more economical in motion, and is less detectable (especially if the lead foot "cheat" step is not taken as seen in the video).

Yes, done differently when sparring a la Joe Lewis.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

Yes, it is a holder we developed I call it the "Master Breaker" and I have plans. PM me your-mail and I will send them, it also has a wall mount variation. If you have the lumber cut for you it takes about an hour to assemble.

Since you linked to your club… Why did your instructor launch the United States Tae Kwon-Do Federation, if it follows the ITF curriculum anyway? Was it for economic reasons or did they depart in some way from the ITF?

Suppose you ran the exact same school under ITF affiliation, would part of the money go to one of the ITF headquarters then instead?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you always keep your right side forward, you only need to train your

- right leg skip in side kick, and
- left leg turn back side kick.

Do you need to train

- left leg skip in side kick, and
- right leg turn back side kick,

that you may never use? What's your thought?

 

[isshinryuronin]

But is based in a stance where that's the only powerful kick at your disposal. Every other kick is at a power disadvantage.

What? How so?
Why do you make claims but offer no reasons? It's a drag.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

What? How so?
Why do you make claims but offer no reasons? It's a drag.

Do I need to offer reasons for why lead leg round kicks and hook kicks are less powerful off the lead leg??

Only the side kick is harder from the lead leg, which my point.

 

[drop bear]

For most everyone I think this is true but I have know people who can throw a rear leg kick as fast and hard as most peoples skip.

Kind of two different conversations.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

If you always keep your right side forward, you only need to train your

- right leg skip in side kick, and
- left leg turn back side kick.

Do you need to train

- left leg skip in side kick, and
- right leg turn back side kick,

that you may never use? What's your thought?

No but you still need to stretch the other side because the opposite hip is connected to the one you are kicking with.

 

[Earl Weiss]

But is based in a stance where that's the only powerful kick at your disposal. Every other kick is at a power disadvantage.

IMO not correct. You do the skip lead leg. side kick from an L or Sitting stance. Lead leg hook or roundhouse kick is not less powerful from those stance. Same for other lead leg kicks like downward, pick shape, vertical etc. Or did you mean to say the lead leg / foot version is les powerful than the rear leg / foot version?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Do I need to offer reasons for why lead leg round kicks and hook kicks are less powerful off the lead leg??

Only the side kick is harder from the lead leg, which my point.

I think you need to clarify. Lead leg ...kicks less powerful off the lead leg.?????????? Did you mean to say this kick done with the lead leg is less powerful than the same kick off the rear leg?

 

[InfiniteLoop]

Did you mean to say this kick done with the lead leg is less powerful than the same kick off the rear leg?

Yes.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Since you linked to your club… Why did your instructor launch the United States Tae Kwon-Do Federation, if it follows the ITF curriculum anyway? Was it for economic reasons or did they depart in some way from the ITF?

Suppose you ran the exact same school under ITF affiliation, would part of the money go to one of the ITF headquarters then instead?

Back in 1974 the ITF needed a national governing body in each country. The USTF was formed to fill that need in the USA.

Following General Choi's death and the attempted NK takeover of the ITF at the memorial service in NK, several USTF members who were US government employees were getting inquires as to their relationship with an NK entity since an ITF faction was controlled by NK and the USTF was a National governing body although not aligned with that faction. To avoid problems they would have had to resign from the USTF. The simpler solution, particularly since the ITF was fractured into 3 parts at that time and not what it had been, was to withdraw the USTF from any official association with the ITF.

As a rule schools send $ to the National and International association they belong to whether it be in the form of school dues, student membership dues or test / certification fees. So, the answer is yes. When with the ITF this is what I did.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If you always keep your right side forward, you only need to train your

- right leg skip in side kick, and
- left leg turn back side kick.

Do you need to train

- left leg skip in side kick, and
- right leg turn back side kick,

that you may never use? What's your thought?

I don't know if he ever trained the other leg, but perhaps with rare exception Bill Wallace was known for only using lead foot kicks.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

Back in 1974 the ITF needed a national governing body in each country. The USTF was formed to fill that need in the USA.

But there are ITF affiliates in the US also so what's the deal there? Did they follow Chois sons ITF? Why aren't they under USTF?

 

[dvcochran]

Kind of two different conversations.

How so? I get it is not a direct answer to the OP, but due to the OP not much else has either.

 

[andyjeffries]

I condensed my kicks to avoid wrecking the apartment and they still had "kime" (Korean?).

Kime is Japanese. I believe in Korean they just use "him" (힘) which translates as power, force or strength. That's the only term I've heard Kukkiwon instructors use on courses.