S
Shiatsu
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So do you study at the Portland branch?
Have you ever trained with Demi Barbito I think is his name.
Have you ever trained with Demi Barbito I think is his name.
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Originally posted by Black Bear
Thanks for the welcome here. I'm glad you're taking the time to cross-train and explore. I think that videos are a fine way of getting acquainted with other methodologies. Many TMA'ists spread ridiculous paranoia about videos. At the worst, a video may be useless, and you've lost $30. This is no worse than going to a month's worth of classes at a lousy studio, moneywise, and you've lost only one evening of your time, not eight.
Restricting cross-training is a cultlike mind-control tactic of some TMA'ists. What is it they have to hide?
Originally posted by PAUL
I use this idea when I instruct.
<snip>
I hope this insight was useful!
Originally posted by Ceicei
Paul,
You ought to write a book. What you've outlined is excellent and give a lot to consider. It's a keeper!
- Ceicei
Originally posted by PAUL
I use this idea when I instruct.
"Martial Arts" can be broken up 3 ways (you have to picture these all in a Vinn Diagram, with 3 overlapping circles:
1. Exhibition: Movie's, demos, pretty drills, forms, etc.
2. Competition: Sparring, kickboxing, NHB wrestling, etc.
3. Combat: Reality fighting.
They all overlap to a degree, and are related, but they are not exactly the same. One important similarity to point out here is with "live training," or training against a resisting opponent. Competition arts are always training against a resisting opponent, even if they are constrained by rules. Combative systems NEED TO HAVE AN ELEMENT OF LIVE TRAINING as well, or else, they are not truely combat oriented. You may not be "competing" in combative arts when you are training with a partner, but you have to have some element where they resist or can move unpredictably to test the technique, because that is what you will face in "reality fighting".
Now tieing this in with how traditional arts fit in...
TMA often train for all 3; combat, competition, and exhibition. There is nothing wrong with TMA, but you have to know where the seperation is with what you are doing. Another thing that you have to understand is the context in which your traditional art is coming from in terms of environment, and how it fits in with the environment that you live in today. Example - My Filipino styles originated from area's in the jungle where there was thick vegitation and not a lot of room to move, so my movements stay very compact and close quarters. This translated well to the alleyways and streets in the barangays (towns), where there are weapons available and S**T on the ground, so not a lot of room to do jumping kick, or submisson wrestling, for example. This then translates well to my current environment where I am mostly in urban or suburban streets or indoors, and there is almost always a weapon of opportunity available. This is different then TKD high kicking and flying kicking techniques, which (as the story goes) originated during a feudel time period in Korea where a flying sidekick would be used to knock someone off a horse, or a jump spin kick might be used to try to reach someone on a higher rock in mountainous terrein. In icy, flat Michigan here, I won't be doing any flying kicks to knock someone off a rock or horse. This does not make TKD ineffective, because there are other TKD techniques that are suitable to my environment; I just have to know which ones and how to seperate them.
Now, lets break down "combat" further. There are different ways to classify combat (same vinn type diagram):
1. Street Defense
1a. Street defense as a LEO, or security.
2. Dueling defense
3. Battlefield defense
These 3 types of combat overlap, but are not the same. A civilian on the street has to defend themselves much differently then a soldier on the battlefield, for instance.
What pertains to the discussion regarding TMA is how dueling fits in. Dueling is combat, in the sense that I am talking about. If we meet at high noon to fight to the death with knives, then this is combat. Yet, it isn't the same as street survival, or battlefield survival; its a different animal. We have had dueling for as long as we could fight; Wild West and England did it with pistols, spain, france, etc., did it with rapiers, Filipinos did it with sticks, knives, short swords, etc., etc., etc. Every culture has a dueling past.
Most TMA focus on dueling. In many of my filipino styles, we are working on fighting single stick vs. single stick, or knife vs. knife, or sword and dagger vs. sword and dagger, or whatever, but just fighting one opponent. This isn't to be underestimated because dueling systems are a great way to improve your attributes and martial abilities. That is why TMA focus on dueling....because in the long term, that is how you will get better.
Yet, it is not the same as street or battlefield survival. Many RBSD systems have taken out these other elements that TMA have, focusing only on combat, and focusing only on street or battlefield survival. TMA does nto fall short...they can focus on these as well; but like knowing what environment your art is designed for, you need to know whether your combative techniques are for survival or dueling, so you can seperate it when needed.
I hope this insight was useful!
:asian:
Originally posted by akja
MJS and Black Bear,
You 2 keep on thinking the way you do and your "cup will remain half empty and not half full."
:asian:
Originally posted by MJS
And this is referring to what exactly???? If you're referring to the tapes, let me enlighten you on that. I DO NOT use tapes as a sole learning source. I have pleanty of people who I train under. Do I have tapes? Yes. I use them as a reference, and that is it.
mike
Originally posted by Black Bear
Have a second look. I really doubt that the majority of video series advertise "to black belt requirements". It's just that when someone does make such an irritating statement, it sticks in your memory. Take a current magazine. Count the ads for video programs that do and do not make this claim, I'm sure you'll find most do not.
When you look at the sheer volume of videos done by folks like Yang Jwing-Ming and countless others, I'm sure that you'll find that somewhere, someone has put an entire system on video. All the forms, all the apps, all the... everything.
That said, that doesn't mean I believe that a person could learn the entire system by having watched it on tape enough times, and trying to monkey it.
It's just like basketball. Can you improve your basketball skills by watching pro games on tape? Somewhat, depends on a number of factors, mainly your pre-existing ability and capacity to learn. Can you learn to play basketball from watching pro games? No. Can I play like Kobe Bryant by watching Kobe Bryant enough times? Goodness no.
Originally posted by akja
Based on my opinion of your posts. It has nothing to do with videos in general. My quote with the cup is referring to you being open to other arts rather than being close minded about the subject.
:asian:
Originally posted by MJS
LOL!! Now thats a good one. Being open to other styles? My friend, let me tell you, I am a HUGE advocate of cross training. Look back at some of my other posts and you will see this. I, unlike some of the other people in Kenpo, who seem to think that you dont need to crosstrain, am all for it, and constantly push for it. I crosstrain in BJJ and Arnis. Being a 1 dimensional fighter today, is, IMO, a very big mistake. Being as well rounded as you can, by having a good balance of all of the ranges of fighting is the way to go. Granted, there are some arts that I'm not crazy about, but I've ALWAYS said that there is something to be learned from all arts. Just because it might not suit my needs, does not mean that someone else shouldnt take a look at it.
I prefer the RBMA over the TMA more, due to the fact that the RBMA are not limited by the things that the TMA are. The RBMA tend to address fighting in a more realistic fashion. They focus more on whats going to work rather than what might work.
Mike
Originally posted by Black Bear
I can walk into most martial art places, pretend to be shopping for a place, and get a free trial class, and in one evening I can tell that they are wasting their students' time.
Try a little harder to catch my meaning here. Belt collecting IS a waste of time. Yes, going to a McDojang will meet this person's goal, but their goal is itself a pretty pathetic exercise of their human potential.Originally posted by Ceicei
Maybe waste your time. But not for some of the others. There are all different kinds of students. Not all take MA for the sole purpose of self-defense. I do know of some who view their training as a study of style (artistically). Some are just "belt collectors" as their goal.
There was a thread somewhere buried in MT that discussed different types of students and their reasoning of studying martial arts.
- Ceicei
Originally posted by akja
We think a like! Although I still have a few traditional instructors as well.
:asian: