Ranks question, etc.

[Michael Billings]

Shame on you for promoting your own instructor ... again.

Besides, we know when the article was written; You and I know some, if not all of what transpired after the article. Nobody doubts Mr. Tatum's lineage or ability. But as I am sure you would agree, the decision as far as being his successor, well, walk carefully young man.

-MB

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Shame on you for promoting your own instructor ... again.

Besides, we know when the article was written; You and I know some, if not all of what transpired after the article. Nobody doubts Mr. Tatum's lineage or ability. But as I am sure you would agree, the decision as far as being his successor, well, walk carefully young man.

In knowing the Parker family for several years I can honestly say that I know Mr. Parker, himself, was not the saint that everyone makes him out to be. Yes, Ed Parker was a good man. Yes, he and Larry did have a falling out. And, No, I am not implying that anyone should be Mr. Parkers heir. People are capable of finding their own way. To hear is to doubt, to see is to be decieved, but to feel is to believe.

I walk the way I walk... I don't hop, skip, or jump unless I have to... and trust me... right now I don't have to.

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
In knowing the Parker family for several years I can honestly say that I know Mr. Parker, himself, was not the saint that everyone makes him out to be. Yes, Ed Parker was a good man. Yes, he and Larry did have a falling out. And, No, I am not implying that anyone should be Mr. Parkers heir. People are capable of finding their own way. To hear is to doubt, to see is to be decieved, but to feel is to believe.

I walk the way I walk... I don't hop, skip, or jump unless I have to... and trust me... right now I don't have to.

I think they are all masters of Kenpo in their own right. They all have interesting and enlightening views on the Art Mr. Parker left us. How can you put a rank on that?

Peace Billy,
Kenpo3631

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
How can you put a rank on that?

this is BRILLIANT. AMEND

 

[Michael Billings]

I was not even trying to go there - it is just that things change, as do people and perspectives. I concur 100% with posts you have made elsewhere re: unification of Kenpo and how problamatic, and maybe not even desired, that would be. I was actually posting with some levity as indicated by the smiley. But hopping, skipping and jumping all have their place, and we don't always do them because we 'Have to", but because that is what we want to do. Hope I caught your reference here and responded appropriately. But what the hey?

More later, gotta go teach.

Oss,
-Michael

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by CoolKempoDude
this is BRILLIANT. AMEND

I thought the appropriate term was AMEN, but I could be wrong.

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
I was not even trying to go there - it is just that things change, as do people and perspectives. I concur 100% with posts you have made elsewhere re: unification of Kenpo and how problamatic, and maybe not even desired, that would be. I was actually posting with some levity as indicated by the smiley. But hopping, skipping and jumping all have their place, and we don't always do them because we 'Have to", but because that is what we want to do. Hope I caught your reference here and responded appropriately. But what the hey?

Mr. Billings,

My point is that I don't think re-unification is possible, and everyone knows that it isn't going to happen under "One" man.

As for walking carefully... that sounded like a subtle warning to me, and I don't feel I've done anything to warrant a warning for the way I have expressed myself on this topic. Thank you. :asian:

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
I thought the appropriate term was AMEN, but I could be wrong.

you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. AMEN

 

[Klondike93]

At what point was Mr. Parker anointed "Senior Grandmaster"?
It's my understanding that it was only necessary when a couple of these 9th's became 10th's and were suddenly using the term "Grandmaster". Now that Chuck Sullivan is a 10th "Senior Grandmaster" what does that make Mr. Parker, "Super Senior Grandmaster"?

Just a curious observation

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Klondike93
At what point was Mr. Parker anointed "Senior Grandmaster"?
It's my understanding that it was only necessary when a couple of these 9th's became 10th's and were suddenly using the term "Grandmaster". Now that Chuck Sullivan is a 10th "Senior Grandmaster" what does that make Mr. Parker, "Super Senior Grandmaster"?

Just a curious observation

Confusing isn't it?

9th = Master of the Arts
10th = Senior Master of the Arts
Mr. Parker = Grandmaster of the Arts

At least that's the way he had it in his Infinite Insights Book (volume two page 16).

 

[Klondike93]

Ahh, didn't notice/remember that, thanks for pointing it out :asian:

 

[Seig]

In addition, Mr. Sullivan created his own system, even if it is based on Mr. Parker's teachings. If he called his system EPAK, then I would take issue with his title, but as it is his system, he can call himself whatever he wants. I do respect the 10ths that are still teaching EPAK but only calling themselves Senior Masters. I do not remember exactly where I read it and I might be slightly off, but I do believe that one of the guidelines for 10th was approximately 40 years in the art and helping to expand it world wide.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
Confusing isn't it?

9th = Master of the Arts
10th = Senior Master of the Arts
Mr. Parker = Grandmaster of the Arts

At least that's the way he had it in his Infinite Insights Book (volume two page 16).

Billy, help me out...... Volume II, Chapter 2, Page 16 is the end of the chapter and is a blank page. The belt ranks are (in my Infinite Insights), are on page 10, and there is no mention of Mr. Parker being the "Grandmaster of the Arts".
Help Please!!!!!!
Thanks
:asian:

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Everyone refers to Mr. Parker as Senior Grand Master. So if 10th degree is Senior Master...isn't it time to promote Mr. Parker to 11th degree?

 

[psi_radar]

Here we go...:soapbox:

I think the Systema guys might have the right idea--no rank insignia, just some cargo or sweat pants and a t-shirt. Let's face it, the cream rises to the top on the mat and is self-evident.

My reaction to seeing Mr. Tatum in a seminar last year:

"Wow. He is a serious badass who not only knows the system in and out, but can apply his thoughts to the physical plane without any temporal delay. I wonder if I could live long enough to learn everything he knows about Kenpo and not be too elderly to apply it." On another note, he was also helpful and personable.

Upon seeing numerous awesome martial artists, my reaction has been similar--one had hybrid experience in Kenpo, small circle ju-jitsu, and Muay-thai; another a grandmaster of aiki-jujitsu; and high-level judoka (plus my own instructor of course . Each clearly demonstrated their mastery of movement and their particular styles, and I was too immersed in the experience to notice their belts. I was, however jealous of their ability while at the same time admiring their skill and knowledge. And I felt priviledged they were sharing it with me.

I think we're all a little too hung up about this rank thing. Be thankful we have such skilled people to teach us, and if they want to go by the moniker "master of all he surveys," I'll still go to their seminars.

Off soapbox.

Pete

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I agree. Let's promote Mr. Parker to 11th and then try and get other Kenpoists to abandon their Red.

 

[Shodan]

Well folks, I still think there is something to say about honoring and respecting the founder of the system enough to keep him at the higest level in the system. I suppose if someone were taught by Mr. Parker EVERYTHING he knew, then maybe they could be the same rank.......but I think it would only be right if Mr. Parker gave that person the rank himself. Am I being too "old school" here or what?

:asian: :karate:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Shodan
I still think there is something to say about honoring and respecting the founder of the system enough to keep him at the higest level in the system.

Am I being too "old school" here or what?

:asian: :karate:

This debate will go on till the end of time....:rofl:

:asian:

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Besides Ed Parker, who was the first to break the tradition and promote themselves to 10th degree? Was it one of Chow's other students? Was it Al Tracy? Ralph Castro? Larry Tatum?

Who will be the first to break tradition and promote themselves to 11th degree? It won't be me.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Typical criteria for promoting Senior Black Belts includes time in the art, teaching history, number of schools/students, etc. Should we add internet post count as a requirement for promotion beyond a certain rank?