Ranking in JKD?

[Red Menace]

I know that Jeet Kune Do is not a traditional art and does not have the color belt ranking system of say Karate or Taekwondo, but do JKD focused schools usually have any sort of rankings? Is there a black belt level? Or do students eschew such things in favor of just training to meet personal goals? Just curious about what is typical in JKD.

 

[arnisador]

It varies a lot. Where I studied JKD the instructor used belt rankings internal to his school for convenience but didn't consider them JKD ranks per se. He did give out the black belt to those making an assistant instructor level, but as much for comparison to other arts as anything else. He is moving more toward a more formal belt system, as I understand it. Another school where I studied it briefly used no ranks but did have instructor rankings. I think most JKD schools are more like that--no belts but some type of certification.

 

[terryl965]

As I understand there is not an official ranking system. Schools will use a in school system for there own reasons, but for the sake of the thread there is no official ranking syatem at all.

 

[shihansmurf]

I spent some time in Han Foo Wa back in the 80's and the 90's whch was JKD with the seriel numbers filed off and a belt system bolted on to it. Aside from that I've never encountered a JKD school that used a formalized belt/sash system. It sort of misses the point, IMHO.

Mark

P.S. There was more to Han Foo Wa than what I described above but thats outside the scope of this thread. I had a good experience with it and heartily reccomend it to anyone that can find a teacher. I just realized what I had written could be taken disrespectfully, which wasn't my intent.

 

[khand50]

the question of rank in jkd came up on another forum i visit that is a jkd forum. i have trained in two jkd schools. the first school, the sdma academy, run by the late edwin pagan, was more along the lines of a concepts type school. ed was under richard bustillo and eventually moved to orlando to open an imb academy. i was assistant instructor at ed's sdma academy and he later gave me permission to teach jkd. the second school was opened by a former classmate of the sdma academy, richie carrion. he teaches under tim tackett and bob bremer, and his approach can be more likened to that of the jun fan jkd, but richie is a great grappler and uses alot of it in his class, but teaches according to the principles of jkd as lee outlined them. i was an advanced student under richie.
both schools used a ranking system of beginner, intermediate, advanced student. then they had the apprentice instructor programs, where you spent time teaching classes and learning to teach and develop your teaching skills and knowledge of jkd under the guidance of the instructor.
it seems that this is the norm for ranking in jkd nowadays. belts dont usually play into the equation because jkd practitioners do not want to be mistaken for traditional martial artists. it sets them aside, in some ways. they wear sweat pants and a t shirt instead of a traditional karate uniform. sometimes jkd instructors have worn the kung fu uniforms, as lee was chinese by heritage. but usually it is sweat pants and t shirt. in the sdma academy, we did wear t shirts with the school logo, white for beginner, yellow for intermediate, and red for advanced student. the black t shirt was worn if you were an instructor. the "belts" were there, but in t shirt form.
ive been in martial arts for forty years now. i have black belts in different arts. i have lower ranks in others. ive trained with about 16 instructors in varying arts over the years. in the first 14 years of my training i never received a black belt ranking from anyone but i taught regularly. i was two months away from black belt ranking in tae kwon do back in 1981 but walked away from the school because of political reasons. the school eventually closed down.
i would like to copy and paste in here the exact article i posted on the other site that i mentioned, rather than try to type it all in. it is just some of my thoughts concerning the matter of ranking in jkd and martial arts in general.....

the funny thing about rank/certification in jkd is that bruce lee himself was never given permission to teach any martial art, as far as i remember. he was never ranked or certified to teach wing chun. if this isnt correct, anyone with information please feel free to correct me otherwise.
bruce lee was encouraged by friends to share his knowledge of martial arts with others. in doing so he assumed the role of sifu, or teacher. a teacher is one who passes on knowledge to others. being a teacher doesnt give status to fighting ability. that is a separate subject. but teaching martial arts implies that one has some sort of skill in combative arts or disciplines. (input a jkd instructor's comment here about being a master of routines) even so, it doesnt mean that the martial arts teacher is necessarily a skilled fighter. to be a good phys ed teacher doesnt require one to be a great athlete. how many good phys ed teachers do we have in the schools who are actually in good physical condition?
we assume that a black belt has deadly skills because he is a black belt. this was how it was as i was growing up and studying martial arts. people today still think of the black belt as the highest achievement. and from the people i have talked to, they consider a black belt to be a deadly guy. some are. some arent. my ex wife had a black belt in tae kwon do but couldnt apply the techniques even in sparring. she preferred forms anyways. that is how she "earned" her black belt. she was insulted by a former kung fu instructor of ours who told her that her tae kwon do was worthless and she couldnt fight her way out of a wet paper sack with holes in it....
does certification or rank as an instructor mean you are a deadly fighter? or does it mean that you have gained adequate knowledge and skill in the necessary components of the system you are training in to then go ahead and teach that system? everyone has different levels of ability when it comes to combat. and how do we measure those skills in the martial arts today?
sparring in class is one way. it seems to be the main way for many schools, especially those that emphasize combative effectiveness over forms. competing in no contact or contact fighting tournaments. and for those schools that favor the combative effectiveness, such as jkd schools, mma, and so on, competing in the contact sports is a good way to prove yourself as a hardcore fighter.
however, fighting in such tournaments requires hardcore training and devotion. not everyone who trains in martial arts is ready for that. in fact, according to bruce lee, jkd is not for everyone. it is a hardcore martial art that is intended to strip away all self doubt and insecurities by stepping into some intense physical conditioning and demanding sparring sessions. at least, this is they way the art was described by the men who trained with lee, by most of the accounts i have read over the years. he was a demanding task master.
so where does this leave us with concern over rank and certification in jkd? how can we apply rank where rank didnt exist in the first place? the students of bruce lee elevated lee to status of si jo. he has become the founder of jkd. that sets him above rank, as in sokeship. perhaps outside of rank itself.
just like every other art ever developed and taught that had rank, the rank system was created by man and used to determine one's basic knowledge of a particular system or style of martial art. it does, of course, imply ones basic skill level in regards to the execution of physical movement. but not everyone progresses physically at the same level. and again, some people are born fighters and others have to struggle harder at it.
so that brings us back to the question, what is the true purpose of martial art? is it just to teach people to be killing machines? or is it a multi-leveled program, reaching out to instill basic attributes such as self defense, self confidence, self knowledge? i guess, as a jkd practitioner, you would have to answer these questions for yourself and see how it applies to what you are doing martial arts for.

ive changed only a couple of items that i typed in the original writing. these are just some of my thoughts about the subject. thanks for reading.

 

[khand50]

shihansmurf,
i have read about han foo wa. it was interesting to see how he came up with the name of his art. i thought that he pretty much did jkd without calling it that. just by the movements he had and the way he dressed. did you study under bill shaw? i wondered if he was still around as i havent seen much on him. but then again, i really dont read the magazines anymore...
years ago i thought up a name in a similiar way. i gave consideration to the notion of using the term, "bak yar do" as a teaching style. the words translate from "back yard way". the idea in my mind was to give my teaching a more oriental sound. i grew up teaching, learning and practicing in my back yard. it was a humorous thought at first but when i saw the han foo wa article in a magazine one day i really considered using that term. but i settled on the one i use now, which is "creative martial arts". i have used that term since the early to mid eighties.
does bill have a book available? and does anyone remember jim arvanitis? he came out in the seventies doing pankration and created his own jkd which he called, mu tau, the way of the individual. he is still out there doing his thing. i have one of his books.

 

[shihansmurf]

Sorry about the delay in answering your question.

I trainined under a couple Mr. Shaw's black belts and attended several get-togethers with him. He has a websight now and is in the process of converting the old tape series to DVD as I understand it. He is a well trainined martial artist and an outstanding instructor.

http://www.hi-impact.com/

Tis is the link to his sight. I'm not quite sure what the online training program will entail but if you check out YouTube and search for HITShaw you'll find a couple of excerpts from his videos.

I don't think that he has any books, but there was a handbook for Han Foo Wa that was used in his schools back in the 80's and it is pretty informative.

The system is well rounded with a lot of emphasis placed on trapping and trowing. Some HFW people develope great kicks as they emulate Bill, but the individual student is encouraged to tailor the system to themselves, and sparring is a constant as I recall-every class.

Hope this helps, if I can give you anymore insight I'll be glad to.
Mark