Racism: have you encountered it?

[kenpo tiger]

Thank you, Flatlander.

New York City is a melting pot of all peoples and their cultures, and the interpretation of race does, in large part, speak to religion.

There is a Dunkin Donuts about a quarter mile from my place of business and I will occasionally go there for coffee in the morning. It is a small storefront on a major north south artery, so there is usually quite a line. The franchise holder is probably Indian of some sort. This particular county has health laws which require that those handling food must wear rubber or latex gloves, and he and his employees do not. There have been some real scenes in there with people starting by commenting about that and escalating to "if you want to live in this country, act like an American" and so on. I don't understand the correlation between the two. This has happened more than once, with one time spilling out into the parking lot between two men - the prejudiced one and someone telling him to mind his own business, if he doesn't like the way they conduct their business, report them and go elsewhere (common sense, no?) Anyway, it degenerated name-calling between those two, who were both Caucasian ("dumb mick, stupid jew".) It just goes to show that stupid is stupid.

 

[dearnis.com]

In the martial arts world...yes. At one time training in a Japanese art over a 2 year (approximate) period I noticed that ALL the whites who trained were treated as second class (to the point that our Japanese teacher avoided his students at public events).

 

[terryl965]

In the martial arts world...yes. At one time training in a Japanese art over a 2 year (approximate) period I noticed that ALL the whites who trained were treated as second class (to the point that our Japanese teacher avoided his students at public events).

Chad it must have been hard on you nobody should have to deal with rascism... GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[OC Kid]

There is a large Korean population. The koreans dont associate with non in my area . My wire who as I said earlier is hispanic was picking my daughter up at kindergarten she was talking to a Korean lady new to the USA and another korean lady walked up stood in between my wife and the lady she was talking to turned her back to my wife said something to the lady in Korean and walked away, no excuse me nothing. The lady Tere was talking to then told my wife "I have to go". She walked over the rest of the Korean ladies and never spoke to Tere again. They have been known to gang up on kids in the schools starting at about jr high school. That is another reason I started teaching my boy M/A. So he will be very well trained to able to defend himself. BTW he is starting 5th grade and it is already begining to happen.
I know how to deal with them. They are passive agressive. They will back down once you stand up to them. At least so far.

 

[dearnis.com]

Chad it must have been hard on you nobody should have to deal with rascism... GOD BLESS AMERICA

not hard really; a good learning experience.... It is a great example of how folks other than whites can be racist. It is an experience I have tried to keep in mind as a white cop working minority areas.

 

[terryl965]

not hard really; a good learning experience.... It is a great example of how folks other than whites can be racist. It is an experience I have tried to keep in mind as a white cop working minority areas.

WELL GOD BLESS YOU CHAD FOR BEING ABLE TO REMEMBER TO DO THE RIGHT THING....GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[mj-hi-yah]

I've never understood it...don't we all bleed red? We are all alike as we are all human beings and we are all different as we are all individuals, and that is the beauty of it all. It's something to be celebrated and appreciated. When you work with young children you get to see the purity and beauty of all people and you get to see the smiles, laughter and the pure joy they bring - those things are universal. I think racism comes from a lack of understanding of cultural differences. We should respect our differences, or at least learn tolerance toward them. I agree Flatlander that unfortunately it often begins in the home, but at some point we grow up and become free to decide for ourselves right from wrong. It's great that you found a way to rise above it. How lucky your daughter is. It's one of the reasons I love the movie The Last Samurai. It is a powerful portrayal of how differently we can view a group of people if we can learn to appreciate their culture instead of fearing it. I can't imagine hating anyone, but especially hating anyone without knowing them first or because they look different than you. What purpose does it serve?

MJ :asian:

 

[MichiganTKD]

Speaking of racism, a friend of mine who holds the same rank as me could be described as racist. While I don't know his beliefs about blacks, he has denigrated Orientals, Native Americans, and women. I continually question the hypocrisy of holding prejudices against Orientals while practicing their art. On the other hand, he doesn't seem interested in Tae Kwon Do philosophy, culture, or history. He just looks at Tae Kwon Do as a means to hurt people if necessary. He feels that since, in his mind, Koreans and other Orientals are racist, it is okay to be racist to them.
On the other hand, his father is just as bad if not worse, so at least I know where he gets it from.
And yes, he is single.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Speaking of racism, a friend of mine who holds the same rank as me could be described as racist. While I don't know his beliefs about blacks, he has denigrated Orientals, Native Americans, and women. I continually question the hypocrisy of holding prejudices against Orientals while practicing their art. On the other hand, he doesn't seem interested in Tae Kwon Do philosophy, culture, or history. He just looks at Tae Kwon Do as a means to hurt people if necessary. He feels that since, in his mind, Koreans and other Orientals are racist, it is okay to be racist to them.
On the other hand, his father is just as bad if not worse, so at least I know where he gets it from.
And yes, he is single.

Not to defend your friend, overly, but certain instructors do tend to have their white and black students freely looking down their nose at western culture. He sees the problem and is reacting in kind. Just a thought :asian:
Sean

 

[loki09789]

Not to defend your friend, overly, but certain instructors do tend to have their white and black students freely looking down their nose at western culture. He sees the problem and is reacting in kind. Just a thought :asian:
Sean

In practicing martial arts, I have noticed that both members and non members (who idiolize the group) of a certain groups can take the view that if you aren't ethnically "them", no matter how well you learn your art, you will never be as good as the old country masters.

Look at the TKD olympic matches. I don't remember the year but I was stationed in DC and remember the poor US TKD fighter (name?) who couldn't catch a break with the judges in Korea when it was obvious that he was tagging his Korean opponent. They just would not let him win as an American in a Korean art while fighting in Korea.

I only use the above example because it came to me. I know there are other examples dealing with other groups.

Honestly, I don't think it is 'on the floor' racism as much as 'institution/cultural bias' racism that happens with the culturally based arts.

 

[MichiganTKD]

I was fighting in a friendship tournament in Spain a number of years ago. At the end of my match, it was decided that I and my opponent had tied. The coach of our team told me that even though I had done well fighting, the other team and the audience would have a hard accepting a win from a non-Spaniard, unless it was obvious I had won. So a tie would be a compromise. So there can definitely be a cultural bias. Look at how long it took for an American to win the gold medal in Olympic Tae Kwon Do. Usually, Koreans dominate.

 

[Elizium]

Racism is created by the mind. The fact that we have to downplay a certian way of living (disability or homosexuality) and feed from hatred to make the views plausable only causes more of them to exist.


If I was for instance to hate a country, say China (I do not hate China, just using it as an expamle) I would say why don't they speak English. After all, they do have a moral obligation to make us welcome in our own language. And they way they dress, talk ETC. Just by saying that Chinese are a bunch of idiots and al the things my Great Grandfather would say about the world. Times have changed, attitudes have changed. The world has become a more intigrated society (minus the exception of a few people who want to hurt others by imposing their will onto everyone elses), we have a good idea of what life is like in China, Japan and parts of the Middle East. Only North Korea is teaching their kids that America invaded first and it is their right to kill Americans in the invasion
From one simpe question, 2 pages has been created. But regarding the subject in total, I always say this to any MA person that is learning: Why learn a system that is considered superior that comes from another country, when your views say that that country is inferior?

 

[OC Kid]

Yes there is such a thing as cultural racism. Its funny even with in the Hispanic communites they have prejudices. The Mexicans look down on the Guatamalens they both look down on the El Salvadorians ect. The Asian communities are much the same, Viet Namese dont like Koreans and Chinese Japanese, each one of them dont like each other and so the story continues.

 

[kenpo tiger]

It is human nature to want to be "the best", and we are all brought up, knowingly or not, to be competitive: go to a good school to get a good job to make good money. In the course of my career I come in contact with very very wealthy people. They, too, are guilty of looking down on their "peers" who purportedly have enough wealth to be considered a peer. [And, they are the same as anyone else when they have too much to drink - maybe even dumber and nastier.] The class system in England is the basis for their views - and most of them are stuck in the 1950s mindset - even the young ones. They all attend the same small group of schools, they all socialize with the same small group of people, and they intermarry. What do you expect? It's the same with any group. Think about it.

I must admit that I've never encountered the type of exclusionism described in some of the posts. I'd be curious to know which part of the country you all are from - not overly specific, but which region or state - mid-America, the south, northwest, southwest? And - what about those of you who live in Hawaii? Some of the kenpo lore talks about how the Parker system evolved through his going out and getting involved in street fights when he lived in Hawaii.

And another thought. Someone talked about how practioners of certain ma styles feel that it's the best (and only). Can anyone then explain WHY the masters of those arts are constantly borrowing from other 'inferior' arts? Logically, if they are inferior, why bother to take anything from them. Again - just a thought, but I'm tossing it out there to you all.:idunno: :samurai:

 

[loki09789]

And another thought. Someone talked about how practioners of certain ma styles feel that it's the best (and only). Can anyone then explain WHY the masters of those arts are constantly borrowing from other 'inferior' arts? Logically, if they are inferior, why bother to take anything from them. Again - just a thought, but I'm tossing it out there to you all.:idunno: :samurai:

As far as practitioners, lack of an open mind and training for personal ego instead of personal development, lack of real exposure to other arts to make an objective/academic comparision instead of 'style-centric' judgements, and a strong lack of confidence in yourself.

As far as the 'masters' borrowing, happens because, I hope, that either these people had better character and/or went through the personal development and got past all the above listed small mindedness

 

[kenpo tiger]

As far as the 'masters' borrowing, happens because, I hope, that either these people had better character and/or went through the personal development and got past all the above listed small mindedness

I agree.

 

[8253]

Underneath everyone is human.

 

[Kevin Walker]

Yes there is such a thing as cultural racism. Its funny even with in the Hispanic communites they have prejudices. The Mexicans look down on the Guatamalens they both look down on the El Salvadorians ect. The Asian communities are much the same, Viet Namese dont like Koreans and Chinese Japanese, each one of them dont like each other and so the story continues.

In my neighborhood, the Polish and Lithuanians get along like cat and dog. In the 1950s, a lot of Lithuanians and Polish moved to Boston because of communist persecution from the former Soviet Union. Now the Russians are immigrating to Boston, and catching it from the Lithuanians and Polish.

 

[OC Kid]

Yea those are old hatreds that have followed them from their native country. Its a shame though considering the very thing they are doing is why the left. Well maybe their kids or the next generation after them will finally give them peace

 

[Elizium]

Yea those are old hatreds that have followed them from their native country. Its a shame though considering the very thing they are doing is why the left. Well maybe their kids or the next generation after them will finally give them peace

The only way we can stop the next generation from hating is to put a stop on it today. With all the bitching of who is what, or their skin color is not the same as ours, we have to listen to their arguements and experience their hatred along with actions.

Say that, down the road there are some "people [fill in what type of ethnic/cultural background you want] " that have moved in. They have different ways to us. Act differently, dress different to us. Should we hate them just on that alone? Should we go round and smash their car up, set fire to their house or beat up their children just because they do not fit in with us?

the only reason hatred exists is that we are scared. Look at Orwells 1984. In that society is like cattle. They get up, exersise, work, then go and spend 2 minutes hating another society until they are told to stop. They are being told to hate. And hate they will. So when refugees are shown coming in and gettng subsidised by the welfere state, racist people will use that to make us hate them for no reason. In the UK it is happening here. The media saying influx of refugees, the far right parties like the National Front and BNP capitalize on this slowly like a drip of information. Now when someone is talking a foreign language you can see the looks they get and the snide talking behind their backs.

So we must start today to change the views. Not tomorrow, next year or next generation, but now. We should be the ones that advocate peace. Martial Arts means to prepare for war or the art of preparing for war. But it is war not of guns and bombs, but the war of our community. Only at a sub level can we begin to change the way people think. And we should begin to start the process by showing tolerance to everyone, regardless of who and where they come from.