Questions for those who started their own system/ style

[chrissyp]

So as the question states, not for those who use theirs for personal use, which is essentially what ever good martial artist does, make their knowledge and style their own, but for those who market ot and teach it to the public

What is it that you do differently that you feel sticks out? This isnt made to sound like an insult, but just curiosity of what you do that is unique and your mission with your system.

 

[Kababayan]

I'm really glad you asked this question. Initially I intended to post an enormously long response that included the journey that I went through when creating my martial arts system, but then I thought I was getting too far away from your question. I still have my response, but I think I'll save it for when someone asks for suggestions as to how to create a martial arts system. To answer your question, my system is rooted around the philosophy of "few movements pertaining to many scenarios". I've always felt that many self defense systems require too many moves to memorize. It can be challenging for students to remember a multitude of moves when under pressure.

For every rank that my system has there is one set of core moves to remember. They all fit into a pattern. Most defenses taught at that specific rank utilize that core set of moves. For example my white belts learn simultaneous block/punch, knee strike, push away, and run. They will then use that core set of moves for various punch defenses, certain grab defenses, etc. There are some defenses that won't utilize the core moves, such as ground defenses, but for the most part the defenses at that level are based around those core set of moves. I also warm up with attack defense drills where the students focus on attacks from four different angles (both right a left side) using the core set of moves. Those four different angles are meant to simulate most attacks that a person will see (including sticks and knife defenses). Even my stick fighting (Escrima) is based on a simple pattern of moves that are applicable to many scenarios. The purpose is that a student has muscle memory of what to defend with if attacked, and the ability to flow from one core technique to another if need be.

 

[chrissyp]

I'm really glad you asked this question. Initially I intended to post an enormously long response that included the journey that I went through when creating my martial arts system, but then I thought I was getting too far away from your question. I still have my response, but I think I'll save it for when someone asks for suggestions as to how to create a martial arts system. To answer your question, my system is rooted around the philosophy of "few movements pertaining to many scenarios". I've always felt that many self defense systems require too many moves to memorize. It can be challenging for students to remember a multitude of moves when under pressure.

For every rank that my system has there is one set of core moves to remember. They all fit into a pattern. Most defenses taught at that specific rank utilize that core set of moves. For example my white belts learn simultaneous block/punch, knee strike, push away, and run. They will then use that core set of moves for various punch defenses, certain grab defenses, etc. There are some defenses that won't utilize the core moves, such as ground defenses, but for the most part the defenses at that level are based around those core set of moves. I also warm up with attack defense drills where the students focus on attacks from four different angles (both right a left side) using the core set of moves. Those four different angles are meant to simulate most attacks that a person will see (including sticks and knife defenses). Even my stick fighting (Escrima) is based on a simple pattern of moves that are applicable to many scenarios. The purpose is that a student has muscle memory of what to defend with if attacked, and the ability to flow from one core technique to another if need be.

I love it! Im developing my own based on classical pugilism techniques , mixed with muay chai, the elusiveness of modern boxing , and sweeps and other techniques from shotokan and enshin sabaki philosophy . The main point is in the street, you dont have big glove to defend or strike with, hand the hands are brittle. Deflect the attack while moving, counter change postion/range, repeat

 

[Buka]

Go getum, Chrissy.

 

[skribs]

I'm really glad you asked this question. Initially I intended to post an enormously long response that included the journey that I went through when creating my martial arts system, but then I thought I was getting too far away from your question. I still have my response, but I think I'll save it for when someone asks for suggestions as to how to create a martial arts system. To answer your question, my system is rooted around the philosophy of "few movements pertaining to many scenarios". I've always felt that many self defense systems require too many moves to memorize. It can be challenging for students to remember a multitude of moves when under pressure.

For every rank that my system has there is one set of core moves to remember. They all fit into a pattern. Most defenses taught at that specific rank utilize that core set of moves. For example my white belts learn simultaneous block/punch, knee strike, push away, and run. They will then use that core set of moves for various punch defenses, certain grab defenses, etc. There are some defenses that won't utilize the core moves, such as ground defenses, but for the most part the defenses at that level are based around those core set of moves. I also warm up with attack defense drills where the students focus on attacks from four different angles (both right a left side) using the core set of moves. Those four different angles are meant to simulate most attacks that a person will see (including sticks and knife defenses). Even my stick fighting (Escrima) is based on a simple pattern of moves that are applicable to many scenarios. The purpose is that a student has muscle memory of what to defend with if attacked, and the ability to flow from one core technique to another if need be.

Hi, I'd be curious to see that. Maybe I'll post a thread in the near future that will be worthy of that post
What is your style called?

@chrissyp

While I have not created my own style, my belief is that most new styles are created because:

• The martial artist likes the techniques of their training style, but not the teaching style
• Removing "fluff" from an art or adding in techniques in areas the art is lacking
• Practicing different applications for the training style than what is taught
• Combining arts which cover different areas or taking strengths and weaknesses from various arts
• Innovation

One thing I would caution is that you should only create your own style if you're confident in what you are doing to diverge from that style. You have essentially 5 styles it seems you want to combine. How proficient are you in those 5 styles, or at least the components of those styles you want to combine?

Some thoughts I would ask myself if I was thinking about starting an art:

1. What am I trying to accomplish that isn't accomplished by another art?
2. What is the goal of my art (i.e. defense, art, sport, wellness)?
3. What is the core foundation and base set of techniques I want to build on? (i.e. punches, kicks, grappling, blocks and counters, aggressiveness)
4. What is the teaching style I want to use? (katas, techniques vs. concepts, what kind of training and drills, combine workout with class or expect workout after class, etc)
5. Am I competent enough in the components I want to teach that I can properly include them in the art?

Other thoughts I would have as I get more details:

• How to organize the curriculum, and whether there is a progression system or not
• Names, both naming the art, but also the vocabulary of the art. Also copyright, including the art's name, the school's name, and the curriculum
• Advertising, training location, equipment, fees, all the business and logistics of teaching the art
• Documentation, such as videos, manuals, and notes of the art
• Is there an apprentice teaching under you? Who are they, how do you train them?

Just my thoughts. But I'm nowhere near creating my own!

 

[Flying Crane]

I'm really glad you asked this question. Initially I intended to post an enormously long response that included the journey that I went through when creating my martial arts system, but then I thought I was getting too far away from your question. I still have my response, but I think I'll save it for when someone asks for suggestions as to how to create a martial arts system. To answer your question, my system is rooted around the philosophy of "few movements pertaining to many scenarios". I've always felt that many self defense systems require too many moves to memorize. It can be challenging for students to remember a multitude of moves when under pressure.

For every rank that my system has there is one set of core moves to remember. They all fit into a pattern. Most defenses taught at that specific rank utilize that core set of moves. For example my white belts learn simultaneous block/punch, knee strike, push away, and run. They will then use that core set of moves for various punch defenses, certain grab defenses, etc. There are some defenses that won't utilize the core moves, such as ground defenses, but for the most part the defenses at that level are based around those core set of moves. I also warm up with attack defense drills where the students focus on attacks from four different angles (both right a left side) using the core set of moves. Those four different angles are meant to simulate most attacks that a person will see (including sticks and knife defenses). Even my stick fighting (Escrima) is based on a simple pattern of moves that are applicable to many scenarios. The purpose is that a student has muscle memory of what to defend with if attacked, and the ability to flow from one core technique to another if need be.

How have your students fared with your slimmed-down approach?

I have spent years studying systems with very large/cumbersome curriculum and I am a fan of the “more mileage with less material” approach.

However, it has occurred to me that perhaps each person might need to experience that range of training for themselves before they are able to grasp the usefulness of a smaller curriculum. It might be that trying to bring a student directly into a briefer curriculum without that wider experience might create some difficulty in developing the vision to see what is possible with a briefer curriculum.

Any thoughts?

 

[chrissyp]

@skribs to answer your question, I believe i'm pretty knowledgable in all but the Muay Chai, but the techniques i'm borrowing are similar to other techniques in the other arts. All but the boxing, have an emphiesis on fighting bare handed, and a lot of the philosophies and a suprising amount of techniques I found overlap, which makes ideal for meshing. what i'm using from each isn't too different from each part of each art. IDK if i'm ever going to teach, but for my own personal journey as a martial artisist, I find my development and growth comes from me personally setting up a philosophy from my experience of what works, remove what doesn't, and figuring out a way I can make it all work together.

 

[Flying Crane]

@skribs to answer your question, I believe i'm pretty knowledgable in all but the Muay Chai, but the techniques i'm borrowing are similar to other techniques in the other arts. All but the boxing, have an emphiesis on fighting bare handed, and a lot of the philosophies and a suprising amount of techniques I found overlap, which makes ideal for meshing. what i'm using from each isn't too different from each part of each art. IDK if i'm ever going to teach, but for my own personal journey as a martial artisist, I find my development and growth comes from me personally setting up a philosophy from my experience of what works, remove what doesn't, and figuring out a way I can make it all work together.

Do you find consistent principles underlie these techniques that come from different sources? For example, the methodology for generating power is identical or close to it, in all cases?

 

[chrissyp]

Do you find consistent principles underlie these techniques that come from different sources? For example, the methodology for generating power is identical or close to it, in all cases?

on some yes, definatly. The thing that made me look into this, particular pugilism was my interest in bare knuckle techniques, and I found through research showing that while traditional karate and pugilism/bare knuckle boxing developed on the other ends of the world, around the same time, from my understanding with no influence to each other, they share many same blocks, similar hand positions and strikes. This inspired me to see if this could work together due to the similarities. I hope this answers your question

 

[Flying Crane]

on some yes, definatly. The thing that made me look into this, particular pugilism was my interest in bare knuckle techniques, and I found through research showing that while traditional karate and pugilism/bare knuckle boxing developed on the other ends of the world, around the same time, from my understanding with no influence to each other, they share many same blocks, similar hand positions and strikes. This inspired me to see if this could work together due to the similarities. I hope this answers your question

I guess I am less interested in the similarities in technique between systems because I believe that similar techniques do develop independently in cultures that did not influence each other. It would not surprise me that cultures separated by thousands of miles would each have a similar fist with which they would punch, or an open palm-strike, or a back kick or front kick or side kick.

What I am getting at as an example is the body mechanics used to drive those techniques for maximum power. How is the body engaged, to throw a powerful punch or kick? How is the arm and shoulder matched with the legs and waist, for example? Are you finding consistencies on those levels?

On this level, two punches from two different cultures could look similar to the uneducated eye, but could actually be quite different. One may engage the feet and legs and torso more, while the other may rely on the torso and shoulders without much work done by the feet and legs.

I bring this up because if you incorporate punching techniques from different systems that use different mechanics, which one becomes the standard method? Consistency within the method is important and goes a long way in developing skill.

 

[chrissyp]

I guess I am less interested in the similarities in technique between systems because I believe that similar techniques do develop independently in cultures that did not influence each other. It would not surprise me that cultures separated by thousands of miles would each have a similar fist with which they would punch, or an open palm-strike, or a back kick or front kick or side kick.

What I am getting at as an example is the body mechanics used to drive those techniques for maximum power. How is the body engaged, to throw a powerful punch or kick? How is the arm and shoulder matched with the legs and waist, for example? Are you finding consistencies on those levels?

On this level, two punches from two different cultures could look similar to the uneducated eye, but could actually be quite different. One may engage the feet and legs and torso more, while the other may rely on the torso and shoulders without much work done by the feet and legs.

I bring this up because if you incorporate punching techniques from different systems that use different mechanics, which one becomes the standard method? Consistency within the method is important and goes a long way in developing skill.

The hand striking is mostly runs the gauntlet from all the arts, power comes from the hips and the legs, hands up. as for kicking, the idea of combing a muay thai kick and a karate kick mechanics is what I personally use. This video can explain it better than I can.

 

[Flying Crane]

The hand striking is mostly runs the gauntlet from all the arts, power comes from the hips and the legs, hands up. as for kicking, the idea of combing a muay thai kick and a karate kick mechanics is what I personally use. This video can explain it better than I can.

I cannot watch the video at the moment.

What you say about punching, I guess what I am trying to get at is whether you have a consistent method, whatever that method may be and whichever system it came from. I’m not critiqueing you. I’m just pointing out the importance of considering this issue. I feel that a lot of people simply combine techniques from different systems without considering compatible methodologies and compatible principles underneath it. People sort of assume that more is better, so they throw everything into a blender and assume what comes out will be better, simply because it is more.

When you consider the compatibility of the underlying principles then you begin to realize that some things do not blend well and some things should NOT be part of the mix. People get so hung up on adding things to what they do that they forget to consider that some things should not be added. They are better off if some things are excluded because of incompatibility issues.

So I’m just pointing it out to make sure you are thinking about it. Consistency in the method is important. When things are consistent, your curriculum becomes streamlined. You need one good way to generate a powerful punch, you train that well so it becomes automatic, your body does it automatically, and you use that method every time you punch. You do not need five different ways from five different systems to develop a strong punch. That takes much longer and does not become automatic. It adds clutter to your training. It is merely collecting systems, not making good use of a method.

 

[jks9199]

on some yes, definatly. The thing that made me look into this, particular pugilism was my interest in bare knuckle techniques, and I found through research showing that while traditional karate and pugilism/bare knuckle boxing developed on the other ends of the world, around the same time, from my understanding with no influence to each other, they share many same blocks, similar hand positions and strikes. This inspired me to see if this could work together due to the similarities. I hope this answers your question

Couldn't possibly because the human body only comes in 2 basic models, and the differences between those models have little to do with fighting...

Bottom line is we all work with pretty much the same skeleton & muscle structure, in the same arrangement. Unless you add an extra elbow, or spare head... you can only move effectively in so many ways. You can change what you use to generate power, how you find structure -- but you still have to stay in a recognizably narrow band of actions.

 

[chrissyp]

I cannot watch the video at the moment.

What you say about punching, I guess what I am trying to get at is whether you have a consistent method, whatever that method may be and whichever system it came from. I’m not critiqueing you. I’m just pointing out the importance of considering this issue. I feel that a lot of people simply combine techniques from different systems without considering compatible methodologies and compatible principles underneath it. People sort of assume that more is better, so they throw everything into a blender and assume what comes out will be better, simply because it is more.

When you consider the compatibility of the underlying principles then you begin to realize that some things do not blend well and some things should NOT be part of the mix. People get so hung up on adding things to what they do that they forget to consider that some things should not be added. They are better off if some things are excluded because of incompatibility issues.

So I’m just pointing it out to make sure you are thinking about it. Consistency in the method is important. When things are consistent, your curriculum becomes streamlined. You need one good way to generate a powerful punch, you train that well so it becomes automatic, your body does it automatically, and you use that method every time you punch. You do not need five different ways from five different systems to develop a strong punch. That takes much longer and does not become automatic. It adds clutter to your training. It is merely collecting systems, not making good use of a method.

I follow what you're saying now.

 

[chrissyp]

Couldn't possibly because the human body only comes in 2 basic models, and the differences between those models have little to do with fighting...

Bottom line is we all work with pretty much the same skeleton & muscle structure, in the same arrangement. Unless you add an extra elbow, or spare head... you can only move effectively in so many ways. You can change what you use to generate power, how you find structure -- but you still have to stay in a recognizably narrow band of actions.

Completely agree

 

[jobo]

I have neither the time nor to be honest, the intest in teaching a style commercialy, but if such was to happen,
I would emphersise fitness, that is they are at a bare minimum in the upper quartile for there age and gender, with iyt this the rest is ibcreasingly useless

Then once they had achieved the physicality necessary,

I would have just 12 movements,

Three punches, three " kicks" ( including use of the knees ), three blocks and three throws

And simply refine these indevidually and especially to be used incombination

 

[Martial D]

I love it! Im developing my own based on classical pugilism techniques , mixed with muay chai,

@skribs to answer your question, I believe i'm pretty knowledgable in all but the Muay Chai, .

So it would seem. Unless that's a new drink at Starbucks.

 

[skribs]

@skribs to answer your question, I believe i'm pretty knowledgable in all but the Muay Chai, but the techniques i'm borrowing are similar to other techniques in the other arts. All but the boxing, have an emphiesis on fighting bare handed, and a lot of the philosophies and a suprising amount of techniques I found overlap, which makes ideal for meshing. what i'm using from each isn't too different from each part of each art. IDK if i'm ever going to teach, but for my own personal journey as a martial artisist, I find my development and growth comes from me personally setting up a philosophy from my experience of what works, remove what doesn't, and figuring out a way I can make it all work together.

To be clear - by "knowledgable" do you mean you've read books and attended seminars on the theory of that art, or that you've actually trained that art?

There's a difference between learning some things to incorporate into your style, and training those things to the point you have a mastery you can pass down.

I'm not trying to put you down or make assumptions here. I'm just saying there's a big difference between someone like me saying "I'm a black belt in Taekwondo and I watched Ong Bak and Ip Man and a few youtube videos, so I'm going to make a TKD/Muay Thai/Wing Chun hybrid", vs. someone who's trained for 10 years in Taekwondo, 3 years in Wing Chun, and a few years in Muay Thai making the same hybrid.

 

[chrissyp]

To be clear - by "knowledgable" do you mean you've read books and attended seminars on the theory of that art, or that you've actually trained that art?

There's a difference between learning some things to incorporate into your style, and training those things to the point you have a mastery you can pass down.

I'm not trying to put you down or make assumptions here. I'm just saying there's a big difference between someone like me saying "I'm a black belt in Taekwondo and I watched Ong Bak and Ip Man and a few youtube videos, so I'm going to make a TKD/Muay Thai/Wing Chun hybrid", vs. someone who's trained for 10 years in Taekwondo, 3 years in Wing Chun, and a few years in Muay Thai making the same hybrid.

Ive trained all for many atleast 5 years directly with the exception of muay chaiya, which i do have some hands on but not as extensive as the others.Again i have no intention of marketing this system , this is merely for my own personal use

 

[chrissyp]

So it would seem. Unless that's a new drink at Starbucks.

Stupid auto correct! I ment muay chaiya!! Well played though!