Questions about aikibudo, aiki jujitsu, and ninjutsu

[Charbel Hanna]

Then you can never spar.



These two statements are mutually incompatible. Fighting in the dojo is competition. And it WILL have rules and a referee.

Even if you're training in a place that loves to go to tournaments, YOU don't have to.

Then perhaps I'm not using the word competition correctly, but all in all I think you understand what I am trying to say. I guess the proper word would be tournaments: I don't want to go to tournaments.

Even if you're training in a place that loves to go to tournaments, YOU don't have to.

Indeed!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't want a sport with referee and rules.

One of my guys tested his skill in a local MMA gym. He broke his knee the 2nd time. Without rules and referee, the testing environment can be dangerous.

You don't want to get hurt in SD situation. You definitely don't want to get hurt during your MA skill testing.

I don't want to go to tournaments.

You can test your MA skill in your school which is just a small pool. But if you want to test your skill against the best of the best, the national level tournament is the only place to go.

To spar against someone you have never met before, that kind of excitement even money can't buy it for you.

Competition is fun.

 

[drop bear]

Simply that I don't want to compete. I don't want a sport with referee and rules. I do want to actually fight in the dojo, not just learn katas; but I don't want to learn the martial art as a sport with rules specific to sports, because in real life if someone attacks you, there are no rules.

Some people (on Reddit, especially) interpreted it as "I don't want to fight other people in the dojo", but that's not it. I simply don't want to actually compete in the literal sense, as in a championship.

I hope this helps clarify what I was trying to say.

The problem you have with not competing is you struggle to mix with people who are any good.

And good at fighting is seriously 90% of self defence. (When it comes to self defense fighting there is a whole staying out of fighting aspect)

The easiest way to break that cycle of being a specific rules based fighter, or BJJ butt flopper is to do different competitions so that you have to manage different circumstances.

Self defense is a puzzle. You get all these solutions to solve only certain parts. And if your solve enough. You get to go home.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Then perhaps I'm not using the word competition correctly, but all in all I think you understand what I am trying to say. I guess the proper word would be tournaments: I don't want to go to tournaments.

So the tournament aspect should be irrelevant to your choice of schools. Pick one you like. If you're good at it, you'll be able to apply it. If you don't want to go to tournaments, don't. Simple.

 

[Xue Sheng]

That's actually what I was looking for, but found nothing near me. If you know any dojo in Montreal (Ahuntsic), please let me know.

Sorry, I know little about Montreal other than I liked it when I was there and the only people there I could recommend are; Hai Yang (Xingyiquan, Baguazhang, Taijiquan) and I believe one of our posters is there “@marlon” Shaolin Kempo

 

[drop bear]

So the tournament aspect should be irrelevant to your choice of schools. Pick one you like. If you're good at it, you'll be able to apply it. If you don't want to go to tournaments, don't. Simple.

On the subject of want. It depends. If you want to be good at self defense. You may have to do things you don't want to achieve that.

And understanding that is so important to being good at anything.

 

[Headhunter]

One of my guys tested his skill in a local MMA gym. He broke his knee the 2nd time. Without rules and referee, the testing environment can be dangerous.

You don't want to get hurt in SD situation. You definitely don't want to get hurt during your MA skill testing.


You can test your MA skill in your school which is just a small pool. But if you want to test your skill against the best of the best, the national level tournament is the only place to go.

To spar against someone you have never met before, that kind of excitement even money can't buy it for you.

Competition is fun.

You know not everyone cares about being “the best of the best”

 

[Dirty Dog]

On the subject of want. It depends. If you want to be good at self defense. You may have to do things you don't want to achieve that.

And understanding that is so important to being good at anything.

Meh. If there are 3 other people in the school, you might need to go elsewhere to find a good variety of sparring partners (which still doesn't mean you have to go to tournaments). But if there's a decent sized pool of sparring partners within the school, and you're doing sparring with a reasonable rule set, that's really all you need.

 

[Headhunter]

Then perhaps I'm not using the word competition correctly, but all in all I think you understand what I am trying to say. I guess the proper word would be tournaments: I don't want to go to tournaments.



Indeed!

Look don’t worry about all this now. Just get started first and start learning first. Don’t even worry about testing anything yet you need to have the basics learned first

 

[drop bear]

Meh. If there are 3 other people in the school, you might need to go elsewhere to find a good variety of sparring partners (which still doesn't mean you have to go to tournaments). But if there's a decent sized pool of sparring partners within the school, and you're doing sparring with a reasonable rule set, that's really all you need.

I don't set limits on good enough.

We had a krav instructor compete in a white belt division in BJJ once.

He came last.

 

[Headhunter]

I don't set limits on good enough.

We had a krav instructor compete in a white belt division in BJJ once.

He came last.

A basketball player played a round of golf against a bunch of amateur golf players....he came last to

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't set limits on good enough.

We had a krav instructor compete in a white belt division in BJJ once.

He came last.

I would come in last in a tennis tournament. But I'd do really good in a D&D game.

 

[Headhunter]

I would come in last in a tennis tournament. But I'd do really good in a D&D game.

Yeah and I reckon his white belt friend would come last in a taekwondo competition. Really stupid statement. A Krav Maga guy lost a bjj match against a bjj practitioner....shocker

 

[Tony Dismukes]

1- Aikibudo
Aikibudo, Kobudo - Essai gratuit

2- Aiki jujitsu
Accueil

3- Ninjutsu
Budo Montreal – Budo Montreal Ninjutsu

1- Aikibudo. I had no idea what it was until googling it. It seems interesting, but I have a few questions about it.
1.1 Does it teach atemi waza (striking techniques)?
1.2 Does it teach ne waza (ground grappling)?
1.3 From the videos, it looked very circular, like a choregraphy, but I'm not sure if this is just because it was a demonstration. Is it effective in real-life scenarios for beginners, or is it rather like aikido, where you would have to train a lot before it becomes (very) effective?
1.4 Is it closer to aikido, or jujitsu, in terms of techniques?

Not entirely sure on the background here, but based on what I can see on the website and my knowledge of related arts I'm betting their training consists primarily of choreographed 2-person kata probably with very stylized attacks and defenses. They probably will include some atemi waza, although I wouldn't necessarily bet on it being very high level. They'll have some techniques for pinning someone that you've taken to the ground with an armlock, but nothing like the newaza you'd find in judo or BJJ. The sort of training you'll likely get there has a long historical tradition, but in the absence of live sparring I don't consider it a quick road to functional self-defense skill.

2- Aiki jujitsu. Note that it is not Daito ryu. This one seems very much generalist and oriented toward self-defense.
2.1 Does it teach atemi waza?
2.2 Is it closer to aikido or jujitsu?

This appears to be a modern synthesis created by a founder who had background in both traditional jujutsu and some more modern combat sports. Based on what I've found on YouTube it appears to be a modern bit-of-everything jujutsu system derived primarily from Judo and Aikido along with some basic striking.

3- Ninjutsu. Note that it is not Bujinkan, or at least I don't think it is, as this word appears nowhere on their website. This is the most mysterious to me. Clearly ninjutsu dojos today won't train us to become Ninja assassins (I'm not kidding myself).
3.1 How is it different from, say, jujitsu?
3.2 Does it rely a lot of weaponry, or not so much?

Did a bit of googling on the head instructor and he is actually Bujinkan (unless he's separated from that organization recently). Not sure why he doesn't mention it on the website. Assuming he works with the typical Bujinkan curriculum, then it will include a mix of both unarmed and weapon based technique.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yeah and I reckon his white belt friend would come last in a taekwondo competition. Really stupid statement. A Krav Maga guy lost a bjj match against a bjj practitioner....shocker

Well, that's kind of why I specified sparring without a silly rule set. Sure, there's likely to be some basic safety rules, even if they're unspoken. My son and I don't have a formal rule set at all. But there are unwritten rules. Like no killing each other.

 

[Charbel Hanna]

Not entirely sure on the background here, but based on what I can see on the website and my knowledge of related arts I'm betting their training consists primarily of choreographed 2-person kata probably with very stylized attacks and defenses. They probably will include some atemi waza, although I wouldn't necessarily bet on it being very high level. They'll have some techniques for pinning someone that you've taken to the ground with an armlock, but nothing like the newaza you'd find in judo or BJJ. The sort of training you'll likely get there has a long historical tradition, but in the absence of live sparring I don't consider it a quick road to functional self-defense skill.


This appears to be a modern synthesis created by a founder who had background in both traditional jujutsu and some more modern combat sports. Based on what I've found on YouTube it appears to be a modern bit-of-everything jujutsu system derived primarily from Judo and Aikido along with some basic striking.


Did a bit of googling on the head instructor and he is actually Bujinkan (unless he's separated from that organization recently). Not sure why he doesn't mention it on the website. Assuming he works with the typical Bujinkan curriculum, then it will include a mix of both unarmed and weapon based technique.

Thank you for your detailed answer!

And thanks to all others who have commented thus far. I can't answer to everyone because answers are piling up, but I assure y'all that I've read them all.

 

[Steve]

Simply that I don't want to compete. I don't want a sport with referee and rules. I do want to actually fight in the dojo, not just learn katas; but I don't want to learn the martial art as a sport with rules specific to sports, because in real life if someone attacks you, there are no rules.

Some people (on Reddit, especially) interpreted it as "I don't want to fight other people in the dojo", but that's not it. I simply don't want to actually compete in the literal sense, as in a championship.

I hope this helps clarify what I was trying to say.

Hey, for what it's worth, if you train in a style where there is competition, you won't necessarily have to compete yourself. You'd still benefit from training with competitors. A lot of folks train BJJ, MMA, or Judo and never compete.

 

[Charbel Hanna]

Hey, for what it's worth, if you train in a style where there is competition, you won't necessarily have to compete yourself. You'd still benefit from training with competitors, and it might inhibit your learning, but it's still solid training. A lot of folks train BJJ, MMA, or Judo and never compete.

Yes indeed, and for some reason that hadn't crossed my mind. But now that I think about it, yes of course I could do just that. How silly of me!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Thank you for your detailed answer!

And thanks to all others who have commented thus far. I can't answer to everyone because answers are piling up, but I assure y'all that I've read them all.

If you already have some MA knowledge, to get a training partner should be your highest priority.

If you spar/wrestle with your training partner 15 rounds daily, you will develop some good skill after a year.

 

[Headhunter]

Yes indeed, and for some reason that hadn't crossed my mind. But now that I think about it, yes of course I could do just that. How silly of me!

Just don’t let yourself get pressured into fighting if you don’t want to. I’ve been in hundreds of competition gyms eg Muay Thai, boxing, MMA etc and some don’t care at all if you compete and have a wide variety of students who train for different reasons not just fighting. I’ve been in a Muay Thai gym where no one fights. They just didn’t do it. The coach was an ex fighter and British champ but none of the people in the gym were the right type for competition (to old, injured or just didn’t want to)

But I’ve also been in some where they want everyone involved to fight and if you say you’re not interested then they try and pressure you into it by calling into question your toughness and all that junk to try and bully people into fighting.

again those gyms are the minority and doesn’t happen a lot but it is something to watch out for. It’s easy to get sucked into the macho nonsense. I stupidly fell in for it once and took a fight I shouldn’t have. But again just keep an open mind and stick to your guns about not competing (but of course if you train and then you feel like you want to compete then by all means go for ) it but make sure it’s YOUR choice and not theirs.