Question re: TKD or TSD

[Faye]

I recently checked out a school in my area that is most convenience for me in terms of location, and they have multiple practice time that suits my work schedule.
I told the instructor where I was training briefly (too far, loved the school), and she said that is a olympic style school, very different, and also that their school uses a different set of forms, and also lower stances. I didn't think much about it, I tried it out,and it was very good.
However, when the instructor told me the name of the forms, Pyung Ahn, and also because she stresses lower stance, I think they practice Tang Soo Do!
WHy does the school advertise itself as a taekwondo school???
Its not the style that I'm concern about, since I'm not interested in tournaments or the sport aspect, i just want a good, fun, class!
Just curious....

 

[TigerWoman]

Hi Faye, I am a BB in TKD and we do Taeguek and Traditional forms-starting with Chungi, Tangun, Toesan... I haven't heard of Pyung Ahn. I also have heard of Palgwe forms in Taekwondo. So you are probably right that it is a Tang Soo Do discipline or maybe mixed. Why don't you just talk to your instructor more about the school? Also, you might post your question to get more information in the Tang Soo Do forum. They talk about Pyung Ahn there.

 

[terryl965]

Hi Faye, I am a BB in TKD and we do Taeguek and Traditional forms-starting with Chungi, Tangun, Toesan... I haven't heard of Pyung Ahn. I also have heard of Palgwe forms in Taekwondo. So you are probably right that it is a Tang Soo Do discipline or maybe mixed. Why don't you just talk to your instructor more about the school? Also, you might post your question to get more information in the Tang Soo Do forum. They talk about Pyung Ahn there.

We to teach the Chungi system along with Taeguek, Pyung Ahn as I was told is Tang Soo Do, real interesting forms, saw them done at a tournament has a great look to them.... TigerWoman are you USTU or AAU or one of the others, Olympic or point sparring just curious, if you do not mind... God Bless America

 

[Faye]

That's what I thought. I was confused because they adverstise themselves as a taekwondo school. I used to train at a WTF school and we used tae geuk forms as well.
The forms that this TSD school uses are very low indeed compare to my old taekwondo school. I'll post this to the tang soo do forum to see what they can tell me. Thanks!

 

[MichiganTKD]

It is not necessarily Tang Soo Do. Some of the older Tae Kwon Do schools, such as the WTA (Chung Do Kwan under Son), still practice the Pyong Ahn forms. These are Shotokan forms used by some schools before the ITF-WTF forms developed. At the time, TKD was influenced by Karate, and used Japanese forms until they developed their own. The lower stances are a reflection of that as well.
I've never heard of a school that practiced Taegeuk and the ITF forms simultaneously. I've heard of practicing Palgue-Taegeuk forms together, but not Taegeuk and Chongi-Tosan etc.

 

[Faye]

I was about to say this, while lurking at the TSD forum, I think some of the older TKD school teaches the Pyong Ahn forms. Thank you so much for clarifying. I thought I was going crazy, because they clearly advertise that they are Taekwondo School, and the sensai even gave a brief lecture of what taekwondo is!
I hope the Pyong Ahn forms are similiar to the Tae Geuk forms, because I'm very bad with directions (that goes with driving too!), and it took me a long time to learn the first few, and now I have to learn another type of form, i"ll be confused!

 

[MichiganTKD]

The Taegeuk forms are meant to reflect the four groups of three parallel lines on the Korean flag, which is to say three parallel lines bisected by a vertical line down the middle. Also, they are supposed to represent more Korean technique, as opposed to Japanese-influenced technique in the Pyong Ahn series. I practice the Palgue series, but am acquainted with the Taegeuk forms. From what I have read, the Taegeuk forms are among the easiest forms to learn.

 

[Jion]

I also practice the Pyong An forms at a taekwondo school. Fabulous set of forms. I've also previously learned some of the Chang Hon set - Chon ji, Dan gun, etc. Most of these forms borrow directly from sequences in the Pyong An set - if you've learned one, you probably can do the other fairly easily.

Same goes for the Palgwe forms - again, very influenced by the Pyong Ans. We do two of these forms for tournaments - the 2nd and 7th. The Taeguks were taekwondo's real shift away from Japanese ancestry to try to establish a Korean art.

The big difference, that I've noticed, between Tang Soo Do and Taekwondo is TSD's pull-in of softer Chinese elements. Then again, it may just be the ancestry of my school - we trace back to the Chung Do Kwan, home of the upthread mentioned GM Son. Son is pretty famous for saying "One punch, one kick - finish." Pretty hardcore there.

Good luck with your training!

 

[Faye]

Thank you. Do you know whichset of forms follow's the form "H" ? (H put sideways of course). This was how I learned it when I was in college (before TKD became olympic sports!!)

 

[terryl965]

It is not necessarily Tang Soo Do. Some of the older Tae Kwon Do schools, such as the WTA (Chung Do Kwan under Son), still practice the Pyong Ahn forms. These are Shotokan forms used by some schools before the ITF-WTF forms developed. At the time, TKD was influenced by Karate, and used Japanese forms until they developed their own. The lower stances are a reflection of that as well.
I've never heard of a school that practiced Taegeuk and the ITF forms simultaneously. I've heard of practicing Palgue-Taegeuk forms together, but not Taegeuk and Chongi-Tosan etc.

MichaganTKD we do both mainly because we do both AAU and USTU events and quit frankly the Chongi forms score better with AAU can't do them USTU, like Bassia always score higher because most people see a form that is not repetted 25 times in a tourny...and today the way things are going you never know who is going to leave and stay so better safe than sorry..... God Bless America

 

[MichiganTKD]

You know, I do recall seeing on the AAU website for TKD forms competition that both WTF and ITF forms are accepted. This includes Palgue, Taegeuk, and the Chon-ji forms. I'm not sure if I like the idea of doing both sets so you can do both at AAU tournaments. But each organization has its own rules.

 

[Jion]

Thank you. Do you know whichset of forms follow's the form "H" ? (H put sideways of course). This was how I learned it when I was in college (before TKD became olympic sports!!)

A lot of styles basic forms follow the H-pattern; we have 6 basic forms we call Kuk Mu that a lot of schools in our system just call the H-Forms; they call the Pyong An forms the Advanced Forms. *shakes head*

Right off hand, I think the Palgwe forms (1970s, maybe 80s Olympic TKD) follow an H pattern for the first few forms; the first two Pyong Ans do, to a certain degree. A few of the Chang Hon forms (Chon-ji, etc) do, as well, having been somewhat modeled on the Pyong An set. Won Hyo(sp?) is almost EXACTLY like Pyong An 2.

Fyukyu kata ichi follows the basic H pattern; it's the basic form for Matsumura Seito Ryu. Shotokan's Taikyoku forms are Hs as well, I think.

 

[TigerWoman]

TigerWoman are you USTU or AAU or one of the others, Olympic or point sparring just curious, if you do not mind... God Bless America

We are USTU, WTF forms - Taeguek, Chungi. We do Olympic style sparring during class. But the last two years in tournaments, we've switched to point sparring as every organization wants to do it. Its hard to get used to. Start, stop, start, stop... :erg:

 

[terryl965]

We are USTU, WTF forms - Taeguek, Chungi. We do Olympic style sparring during class. But the last two years in tournaments, we've switched to point sparring as every organization wants to do it. Its hard to get used to. Start, stop, start, stop... :erg:

I agree the only thing with me is USTU no point sparring and the new rule of no head shots until your 14, it's hurting my boy's because they are head hunters, Now AAU does both point sparring and Olympics did a tournament in Arkansas 3 weel ago pretty interesting to compete in both.... God Bless America

 

[TigerWoman]

I don't have any experience in national level tournaments...though they would be awesome to watch. Almost went with my daughter since she won form at state but circumstances prevented it. My master (who won his weight class at nationals (pre-Olympic) got it stripped because he did not have full citizenship status. 20 some years later, he discourages most from competing -sparring because of the knock-outs. Once in a while though he gets one who goes. As a parent, I can understand the 14 age rule though...I wouldn't want my son (BB) knocked out even at 17. I think you have to be a pretty serious contender then, for the risk involved.

 

[terryl965]

I don't have any experience in national level tournaments...though they would be awesome to watch. Almost went with my daughter since she won form at state but circumstances prevented it. My master (who won his weight class at nationals (pre-Olympic) got it stripped because he did not have full citizenship status. 20 some years later, he discourages most from competing -sparring because of the knock-outs. Once in a while though he gets one who goes. As a parent, I can understand the 14 age rule though...I wouldn't want my son (BB) knocked out even at 17. I think you have to be a pretty serious contender then, for the risk involved.

Tigerwoman with all the special equipment out there the risk is miminalcomparred to say football or even better hockey,we try to do 6 to 8 tournament a year 3 local and 3 on the road...God Bless America

 

[ShaolinWolf]

I don't have any experience in national level tournaments...though they would be awesome to watch. Almost went with my daughter since she won form at state but circumstances prevented it. My master (who won his weight class at nationals (pre-Olympic) got it stripped because he did not have full citizenship status. 20 some years later, he discourages most from competing -sparring because of the knock-outs. Once in a while though he gets one who goes. As a parent, I can understand the 14 age rule though...I wouldn't want my son (BB) knocked out even at 17. I think you have to be a pretty serious contender then, for the risk involved.

Well, TKD isn't just a point sparring art anyway, so there are things like the US Open that gets pretty violent. I want to go, but I know I am a long way away from there. I'll get there eventually, but I don't like the thought of knockouts. That's why I plan on practicing to get there. Too many bashes to the head could be fatal. I'm 17 too, and a bit iffy on that. But then again, I've still got some ways to go. If you don't want to worry about knock outs, stick with point sparring. No problem. If you want to work yourself to death to keep up with the competition at US Open, by all means, work yourself to death. They get brutal at times. LOL...that was an understatement...heh.

:asian:

 

[Han-Mi]

to my understanding Moo Do Kwan and Tang Soo Do are closely related. There must be other tkd styles that are close to tsd. I assume that that would leave the potential for the forms to cross over. As for deeper stances, I think any traditional TKD school would have lower stances than an olympic school. That is how it stands from my experience anyway.

 

[terryl965]

Well, TKD isn't just a point sparring art anyway, so there are things like the US Open that gets pretty violent. I want to go, but I know I am a long way away from there. I'll get there eventually, but I don't like the thought of knockouts. That's why I plan on practicing to get there. Too many bashes to the head could be fatal. I'm 17 too, and a bit iffy on that. But then again, I've still got some ways to go. If you don't want to worry about knock outs, stick with point sparring. No problem. If you want to work yourself to death to keep up with the competition at US Open, by all means, work yourself to death. They get brutal at times. LOL...that was an understatement...heh.

:asian:

ShaolinWolf I do not know what point sparring you have seen, but where we compete in the AAUi've seen people knock-out with a kick to the head, now My son's all compete in USTU Olympis Style, but we also do AAU which allows both point and Olympic, and to go further the open tournsments will rock your head off if you not careful...... God Bless America:erg::erg::erg:......

 

[TigerWoman]

. As for deeper stances, I think any traditional TKD school would have lower stances than an olympic school. That is how it stands from my experience anyway.

My school is WTF, Olympic style but we have been doing point sparring in tourneys. We are Taeguek in forms at first until after 1st Dan. All our stances are very long and deep at least that is what we strive for. It didn't change when I learned traditional form Chonji etc., still long and deep and I think, more complicated in my opinion. So, I guess not all schools are the same.