AdrenalineJunky
Black Belt
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How many of you who run dojos or teach children feel that their parents genuinely count on you as a source of teaching their children, or being an example of, discipline?
Question on discipline and children. . .
- Thread starter AdrenalineJunky
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AdrenalineJunky said:
I've been in this situation many times. I've found it more with yonger children (4 and 5) but there have been times when it was with older ones. My theory was, when you come to the dojo, that is the time to learn, not fool around, and I had no problems with having someone sit out for a portion of the class. Usually after sitting for a few, they were allowed back, and most of the time, the fooling around stopped.
Discipline needs to not only be exercised during class time, but also at home. If there were large numbers of students, I did not have time to 'babysit' ones that were doing eveyrthing but learning. Parents need to also take responsibility for their childs actions.
There were many times when the head instructor, the parents and myself would sit down and explain that the disruptive behavior was not going to be accepted. If there was constant disruption, my instructor at the time, had no problem with explaining to the parent(s) that the MA's may not be right for their child at this time.
Mike
I've seen a few very young, unruly, kids be signed up for classes solely for the purpose of trying to have some discipline instilled. They usually don't last in class more than a month or two because (1) they are usually too young to be there anyway (2) they don't even want to be there (3) they probably put up such a fuss about going to class that the parents finally give in and just quit fighting to get them there.
There is one exception at our school. A boy a little older than the usual "discipline needed" kids started several months ago. He's in about 1st-2nd grade. He truly enjoys class and there has been improvement in his focus and behavior in class. It has been a good experience for him and he is benefitting from it.
Personally, I think it's the responsibility of the parents to instill self-control and discipline in their children. If they feel the need to send a 4 year to MA classes to teach the kid some discipline because they can't control them at home, they are going to be in real trouble when the kid gets older.
There is one exception at our school. A boy a little older than the usual "discipline needed" kids started several months ago. He's in about 1st-2nd grade. He truly enjoys class and there has been improvement in his focus and behavior in class. It has been a good experience for him and he is benefitting from it.
Personally, I think it's the responsibility of the parents to instill self-control and discipline in their children. If they feel the need to send a 4 year to MA classes to teach the kid some discipline because they can't control them at home, they are going to be in real trouble when the kid gets older.
Navarre
Master Black Belt
I think that self-discipline is an attribute constantly connected to martial arts training. I consistently hear this as one of the main goals parents have when enrolling children in my class.
Discipline is a rare commodity these days, even amongst adults. By bringing the child to my dojo the parent is often asking for help in this area.
However, like public school, the child's life at home has the greatest impact on the child. Even though a child may spend more time at school during a week than they are at home (awake at least), it is the relationship with the child's parents and family that affects them the most.
Therefore, I can not reasonably think, nor should the parents, that an hour or two a week in my dojo will miraculously transform their child into a model of respect and discipline.
I simply do all I can and teach by example. I also try to help parents gain this perspective.
Discipline is a rare commodity these days, even amongst adults. By bringing the child to my dojo the parent is often asking for help in this area.
However, like public school, the child's life at home has the greatest impact on the child. Even though a child may spend more time at school during a week than they are at home (awake at least), it is the relationship with the child's parents and family that affects them the most.
Therefore, I can not reasonably think, nor should the parents, that an hour or two a week in my dojo will miraculously transform their child into a model of respect and discipline.
I simply do all I can and teach by example. I also try to help parents gain this perspective.
Eternal Beginner
Brown Belt
I find it somewhat amusing when i witness parents doing this. They go to a total stranger, expect them to magically change their kids and then are surprised when the kids are the same at the end of the day.
My sons BJJ instructor is a great guy, has a lot of fun with the kids but also doesn't let them just fool around. All the kids behave wonderfully when on the mat. There are a couple though that when they get home are absolute spoiled brats and the moms can't figure out why. It is because they know Rodrigo's rules and what is acceptable are one thing and mom's rules are another. Unless the parents also hold their children to a high standard those children will continue to lack discipline and self-control.
I feel sorry for teachers (martial arts and otherwise) who have parents who expect them to do their job for them.
My sons BJJ instructor is a great guy, has a lot of fun with the kids but also doesn't let them just fool around. All the kids behave wonderfully when on the mat. There are a couple though that when they get home are absolute spoiled brats and the moms can't figure out why. It is because they know Rodrigo's rules and what is acceptable are one thing and mom's rules are another. Unless the parents also hold their children to a high standard those children will continue to lack discipline and self-control.
I feel sorry for teachers (martial arts and otherwise) who have parents who expect them to do their job for them.
Navarre
Master Black Belt
Eternal Beginner said:
Unfortunately, every teacher must face this several times during their teaching career. It's just one of those things that come with the job.
I have the utmost respect for anyone who teaches martial arts or who has taught in the public school system. ... Oh, hey, that's me in both regards!
Wow, I really respect myself. That's great! :lol:
jdinca
Master Black Belt
We've had kids brought in who needed discipline and we do what we can. The ones where it's backed up at home seem to respond the best. I remember one 5 year old student that started for that purpose, where it was not backed up at home, i.e., the student and his two sibling pretty much ran the show. Dad always had that "hunted" look in his eyes. He got better in class but once he was outside the school, he reverted right back to his previous behavior. He only lasted about six months.
Henderson
Master Black Belt
I think my Sensei has taken it to a different level. He tends to run the school as a family, with him in the role of Godfather. haha! The kids are required to bring in their report cards, any disciplinary notes from school seem to appear in his hands too. And the kids tend to watch their P's & Q's more to not disappoint him rather than out of fear of his reactions.
It also helps when the parents are in full support of the methods and environment which has been established. For example......when a child forgets to bring their obi (belt for those not in Japanese arts), we have a pink one that they must wear. It's more of a slightly embarassing reminder to accept responsibility for their stuff. One day, one of the boys (7-8 yr old) forgot his obi. Sensei says, "get the pink one." He refuses. Sensei say, "wear it or sit out tonight". The kid proceeds to take a seat next to his father. Well, Dad says, "You forgot it. Time to pay the price". He showed his boy that he was in full support of Sensei's decision. Needless to say, that same boy makes a special effort to remember his stuff.
It also helps when the parents are in full support of the methods and environment which has been established. For example......when a child forgets to bring their obi (belt for those not in Japanese arts), we have a pink one that they must wear. It's more of a slightly embarassing reminder to accept responsibility for their stuff. One day, one of the boys (7-8 yr old) forgot his obi. Sensei says, "get the pink one." He refuses. Sensei say, "wear it or sit out tonight". The kid proceeds to take a seat next to his father. Well, Dad says, "You forgot it. Time to pay the price". He showed his boy that he was in full support of Sensei's decision. Needless to say, that same boy makes a special effort to remember his stuff.
Danny T
Senior Master
Interesting question. All of the parents of the youth we instruct as well as all of the adults count on the instructors as a source of teaching other wise why are they there? As to being an example of discipline, what definition of discipline are you using? Discipline is the systemtic training or subjection to authority for the training of the mental, or moral, or physical powers by instruction and exersise.AdrenalineJunky said:
We do quite a bit of mental and physical but moral is based upon the persons perspective, lifestyle and environment. We can and do hold all students to a morality within our Martial art environment but the parents and the student are who is responsible outside of our environment.
Or is your definition, Punishment for the sake of training correction or chastisement. If so we don't do this.
Danny Terrell
Navarre
Master Black Belt
Henderson, this approach can be taken. I admire the importance your sensei places on discipline and respect.
It is a difficult situation though because it ultimately requires the cooperation between your sensei and the child's parents. Your sensei really is stepping into the family.
In the case you mentioned it works magnificently. In other cases your sensei may find himself at odds with the parents.
If this happens I go back to my stance that this is a private class. I make every effort to work with the parents but, ultimately, it is up to me to run that class as I think best.
I won't undermine it for the sake of one student. In the long run that benefits all those who are there.
I have only had one parent remove their child from class for such a situation in the 15 years I've been teaching. I still think about that child because I really wanted to help him.
I had to stick to my ethical principles for the sake of the whole class though. I regret that his mother and I couldn't reach a level of understanding that would allow him to continue in my class. He's the one who suffered because of it and that is a true shame.
It is a difficult situation though because it ultimately requires the cooperation between your sensei and the child's parents. Your sensei really is stepping into the family.
In the case you mentioned it works magnificently. In other cases your sensei may find himself at odds with the parents.
If this happens I go back to my stance that this is a private class. I make every effort to work with the parents but, ultimately, it is up to me to run that class as I think best.
I won't undermine it for the sake of one student. In the long run that benefits all those who are there.
I have only had one parent remove their child from class for such a situation in the 15 years I've been teaching. I still think about that child because I really wanted to help him.
I had to stick to my ethical principles for the sake of the whole class though. I regret that his mother and I couldn't reach a level of understanding that would allow him to continue in my class. He's the one who suffered because of it and that is a true shame.
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